The Remembrance Day thread

[french frank]

Since it's descended into a lot of swearing, it's been moved to Diversions. Do what you like down there, but I'll be tempted to throw away the key when enough of you are down there. Goodnight.

[MrGongGong]

erm ?

[Petrushka]

One would expect that listeners to classical music and Radio 3 in particular have a considerably higher level of intelligence than the norm and the wherewithal to express themselves more eloquently than to resort to foul language and childish abuse. That this should happen on a thread concerning Remembrance Sunday makes it even more reprehensible.

I hope certain heads are hanging in shame, though I somehow doubt it and I won't, as the cliché has it, be holding my breath.

[Beef Oven!]

One would expect that listeners to classical music and Radio 3 in particular have a considerably higher level of intelligence than the norm and the wherewithal to express themselves more eloquently than to resort to foul language and childish abuse. That this should happen on a thread concerning Remembrance Sunday makes it even more reprehensible.

I hope certain heads are hanging in shame, though I somehow doubt it and I won't, as the cliché has it, be holding my breath.

I think you've missed the point. The issue is not foul language (the one swear-word only came about way after the thread had disintegrated - and in the basement), but the spite and spoiling tactics of some posters who cannot abide anything outside of their personal 'world-view'.

This goes on all the time in the Radio 3 forum and there is little or no moderation on this matter. Posters can deliberately set-out to derail a thread and nothing happens. Use a swear-word and heavy censorship is swift.

This spoiling and spite has happened on many threads like the one concerning Baroness Thatcher's death and the one on The Queen's Diamond Jubilee.

A good number of members have left the forum in disgust and frustration on account of all this. This is a shame. Many of them were very interesting posters and generally, the forum has become very samey, politically speaking.

I started this thread in good faith, but it was hijacked.

And no, I'm not hanging my head in shame.

[MrGongGong]

I think you've missed the point. The issue is not foul language (the one swear-word only came about way after the thread had disintegrated - and in the basement), but the spite and spoiling tactics of some posters who cannot abide anything outside of their personal 'world-view'.

This goes on all the time in the Radio 3 forum and there is little or no moderation on this matter. Posters can deliberately set-out to derail a thread and nothing happens. Use a swear-word and heavy censorship is swift.

This spoiling and spite has happened on many threads like the one concerning Baroness Thatcher's death and the one on The Queen's Diamond Jubilee.

A good number of members have left the forum in disgust and frustration on account of all this. This is a shame. Many of them were very interesting posters and generally, the forum has become very samey, politically speaking.

I started this thread in good faith, but it was hijacked.

And no, I'm not hanging my head in shame.

Oh please spare us

[MrGongGong]

One would expect that listeners to classical music and Radio 3 in particular have a considerably higher level of intelligence than the norm

This is an interesting statement
Is it true?
or an assumption?

Do "classical" musicians swear less than "rock" musicians?

[P. G. Tipps]

This is an interesting statement
Is it true?
or an assumption?

Do "classical" musicians swear less than "rock" musicians?

Yes. Foul language (as distinct from 'swearing') and associated puerile behaviour can often be part of pop performance and 'culture' whereas it is clearly not with classical music.

However, Petrushka was referring to listeners of classical music and Radio 3 whom one might expect to have a higher level of intelligence than the norm.

I think that is a wholly reasonable expectation. It takes greater intelligence and effort (and therefore discipline) to listen to classical music (though sadly less and less with R3) than any other genre.

Consequently one might logically expect a rather higher standard of behaviour on a classical forum than one devoted to 'rock' or 'pop' music in general, and indeed, from internet surfing experience, that is almost always the case.

[Flosshilde]

Posters can deliberately set-out to derail a thread

I agree that it is a shame that the original thread's discussion was diverted onto different lines when a thread already existed for that line of argument, but I do think that BO is being a little disingenuous in implying that he's never been guilty of similar activities.

[Richard Barrett]

"a considerably higher level of intelligence than the norm"... As is attested by many sources, there is to start with no single measure of "level of intelligence". Over and above that, the idea of ascribing greater intelligence to listeners of the music one also happens to listen to oneself is IMO ridiculously arrogant. Surely it's for others to say how "intelligent" classical music listeners are. Anecdotally I've never thought there's any particular difference between people who listen mostly to classical music and people who listen mostly to other kinds, other than that the former are more wont to assume that "their" music is somehow inherently superior. As for "foul language and childish abuse" I haven't looked at the thread in question but that's the kind of thing that tends to come out when people's assumptions and prejudices are challenged...

[teamsaint]

"a considerably higher level of intelligence than the norm"... As is attested by many sources, there is to start with no single measure of "level of intelligence". Over and above that, the idea of ascribing greater intelligence to listeners of the music one also happens to listen to oneself is IMO ridiculously arrogant. Surely it's for others to say how "intelligent" classical music listeners are. Anecdotally I've never thought there's any particular difference between people who listen mostly to classical music and people who listen mostly to other kinds, other than that the former are more wont to assume that "their" music is somehow inherently superior. As for "foul language and childish abuse" I haven't looked at the thread in question but that's the kind of thing that tends to come out when people's assumptions and prejudices are challenged...

and beliefs, of whatever sort.(and I don't mean just or even religious).

Concerning one of the points that T bag raises......just for the sake of argument, does it really take a higher level of" intelligence, effort and discipline " to listen to ,for example an early Mozart symphony than say " Hail to the Thief" by Radiohead?

[visualnickmos]

Yes. Foul language (as distinct from 'swearing') and associated puerile behaviour can often be part of pop performance and 'culture' whereas it is clearly not with classical music.

However, Petrushka was referring to listeners of classical music and Radio 3 whom one might expect to have a higher level of intelligence than the norm.

I think that is a wholly reasonable expectation. It takes greater intelligence and effort (and therefore discipline) to listen to classical music (though sadly less and less with R3) than any other genre.

Consequently one might logically expect a rather higher standard of behaviour on a classical forum than one devoted to 'rock' or 'pop' music in general, and indeed, from internet surfing experience, that is almost always the case.

Care to make any more sweeping generalisations?

[P. G. Tipps]

Care to make any more sweeping generalisations?

So you don't agree. That's just fine.

However, it might have demonstrated a rather higher level of intelligence if you had simply said that you don't agree and explained your reasons 'why' .... ?

Or would that have taken an unacceptable degree of effort on your part?

[MrGongGong]

Yes. Foul language (as distinct from 'swearing') and associated puerile behaviour can often be part of pop performance and 'culture' whereas it is clearly not with classical music.

So I guess the well dressed retired woman sat next to me at a ROH performance of Boheme earlier in the year who jumped to her feet at the end shouting "fucking wonderful, bravo, fucking fantastic" is a one off ?

It takes greater intelligence and effort (and therefore discipline) to listen to classical music

Opinion masquerading as fact methinks

[Richard Barrett]

It takes greater intelligence and effort (and therefore discipline) to listen to classical music (...) than any other genre.

Stuff and nonsense.

Have you ever attempted to put in the "intelligence and effort (and therefore discipline)" to listen to Javanese gamelan music, or Indian dhrupad singing, or the John Coltrane quintet, or Scott Walker, or any number of non-"classical" musics that I and others here could name? If you had you might not say silly things like that. As MrGG says, opinion masquerading as fact.

[P. G. Tipps]

Stuff and nonsense.

Have you ever attempted to put in the "intelligence and effort (and therefore discipline)" to listen to Javanese gamelan music, or Indian dhrupad singing, or the John Coltrane quintet, or Scott Walker, or any number of non-"classical" musics that I and others here could name? If you had you might not say silly things like that. As MrGG says, opinion masquerading as fact.

Well of course I'm only expressing my opinion. Its simply that you (and a few others) appear to be grossly intolerant of any opinions that conflict with your own.

However, I do confess I've never listened to Javanese gamelan music or Indian dhrupad singing and, in any case, I was referring to European culture which is the one to which the overwhelming majority of us are most familiar, I suspect. Another member referred to 'rock', not I!

As for Scott Walker, was he one of the Walker Bros singing some very silly American pop songs way back in the Sixties? (IMHO, of course!)