Surely there are more important things that hair colour ?

[amateur51]

It's called 'standards' but then I wouldn't expect you to understand that.

'Pointless imposition of arbitrary standards' is another way of looking at it; 'bullying' for brevity.

[Richard Barrett]

It's called 'standards' but then I wouldn't expect you to understand that.

That's a quote from Basil Fawlty isn't it?

[P. G. Tipps]

The uniforms issue is just a substitute for critiqueing school's inculcatory role in capitalist society, to which, rather as with examples of recycled style and nostalgia, uniformity stands in mixed metaphorical relationship.

Crikey, wish I'd thought of telling old Moonface that when he was belting me to a pulp after I was caught not wearing the school cap ...

[MrGongGong]

It's called 'standards' but then I wouldn't expect you to understand that.

That's a quote from Basil Fawlty isn't it?

:HA HA:


Are they "academic standards" by any chance ?

(Welcome back Simon ?)

I have heard this many many times BUT no-one really can explain what they really mean.

[P. G. Tipps]

Will this help .... ?

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/standard

[MrGongGong]

Will this help .... ?

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/de...glish/standard

No
because insisting that everyone dresses up as 1950's office workers is fine for a piece of theatre but does nothing whatsoever to the ability of people to learn and be curious and engaged.

unless you mean this bit ?

(Especially with reference to jazz or blues) a tune or song of established popularity.

I'm all for more of that (in a free or bebop style as appropriate !)

One of the schools I worked in recently was a similar academy that had been a "failing" school. They seemed to spend more time insisting on petty behaviour (a bit like this one which seems to have NO curriculum other than DT and PE?) than actually teaching. Even the most compliant and high achieving pupils thought the whole thing a waste of time. These things have no effect on what happens outside the confines of the school and seem to be more an excuse for dysfunctional adults to play role play games. Window dressing at best.

[Flosshilde]

uniforms in order to distinguish their wearers from civilians. I don't think children come into this category.

Wearing a uniform is also seen as a way of identifying children if they behave 'badly' on their way to & from school; they can be reported to the school. But that doesn't help much as the individual child can't be identified, so the school can only give a general warning about behaviour. & is behaviour outside the school the school's responsibility anyway, or the parents'?

[P. G. Tipps]

Discipline, Mr GongGong ... discipline!!

That quality is an essential skill for survival in the outside world. Uniforms also teach kids that they are part of a group and no boy or girl is an island ... interdependency, if you like.

I also know from speaking to people who have worked in personnel departments that some kids who have left school and go for important job interviews turn up in t-shirts and jeans. They have never been trained in appropriate dress sense and about showing simple respect for those they are about to encounter and hopefully impress. It is in the kids' interests that they are taught this reality at the earliest possible stage of development. School uniforms are a good start.

Failing to teach children appropriate clothing for particular occasions is a dereliction of duty on the part of parents and teachers, imv.

[ahinton]

It's called 'standards' but then I wouldn't expect you to understand that.

But whose? devised and promulgated by whom? accepted by whom? of what? for what purpose?...

[MrGongGong]

Discipline, Mr GongGong ... discipline!!

That quality is an essential skill for survival in the outside world. Uniforms also teach kids that they are part of a group and no boy or girl is an island ... interdependency, if you like.

I also know from speaking to people who have worked in personnel departments that some kids who have left school and go for important job interviews turn up in t-shirts and jeans. They have never been trained in appropriate dress sense and about showing simple respect for those they are about to encounter and hopefully impress. It is in the kids' interests that they are taught this reality at the earliest possible stage of development. School uniforms are a good start.

Failing to teach children appropriate clothing for particular occasions is a dereliction of duty on the part of parents and teachers, imv.

Utter utter nonsense
we need to encourage curiosity and self discipline not a slavish unquestioning adherence to arbitrary rules.

Lighten up, undo the shirt and let some oxygen get to your brain !

[ahinton]

Discipline, Mr GongGong ... discipline!!

That quality is an essential skill for survival in the outside world. Uniforms also teach kids that they are part of a group and no boy or girl is an island ... interdependency, if you like.

No, I for one don't like! What you really mean here is not "teaching" kids that they are part of a group but "forcing" them to believe it irrespective of whether or not or to what extent they are so; no boy or girl is an island, certainly but that fact does not of itself mean that all attendees of a particular school necessarily have anything in common other than that they attend that school - this isn't North Korea or 1970s China, you know!

I also know from speaking to people who have worked in personnel departments that some kids who have left school and go for important job interviews turn up in t-shirts and jeans. They have never been trained in appropriate dress sense and about showing simple respect for those they are about to encounter and hopefully impress. It is in the kids' interests that they are taught this reality at the earliest possible stage of development. School uniforms are a good start.

No. "Appropriate" dress and dress sense, fine, but that's not the same thing as we're discussing here and seeking to address it by means of the imposition of school uniforms is not the best way to do this. Not only that, even if it were generally agreed that a school uniform was "appropriate dress" for children and young adults in school while they are at school, the solution there would surely be for school attendees to change into such uniform and wear it while at school and then change out of it again each day when they leave; wearing school uniform outside school is an imposition to the extent that it seeks to coerce school attendees to wear it when it cannot be appropriate.

Failing to teach children appropriate clothing for particular occasions is a dereliction of duty on the part of parents and teachers, imv.

I do not entirely disagree with you but the problem here is that not all teachers and/or parents will necessarily agree on what is or should be regarded as "appropriate"; as I mentioned, I cannot see how wearing a school uniform outside school can be appropriate and it might be seen by some as a means of advertising and marketing, which has little obvious connection with education.

[teamsaint]

Discipline, Mr GongGong ... discipline!!

That quality is an essential skill for survival in the outside world. Uniforms also teach kids that they are part of a group and no boy or girl is an island ... interdependency, if you like.

I also know from speaking to people who have worked in personnel departments that some kids who have left school and go for important job interviews turn up in t-shirts and jeans. They have never been trained in appropriate dress sense and about showing simple respect for those they are about to encounter and hopefully impress. It is in the kids' interests that they are taught this reality at the earliest possible stage of development. School uniforms are a good start.

Failing to teach children appropriate clothing for particular occasions is a dereliction of duty on the part of parents and teachers, imv.

I think that teaching kids some useful life skills would be good. How to drill a hole and use a rawlplug, how tax codes work, dressing appropriately for interviews, cooking sausages thoroughly etc etc. None would take long, and potentially save a lot of time and effort later in life.
Not sure how wearing a one size fits all uniform on a school occasions is really going to help though.

SELF discipline is an essential for survival I would say. Not the same as imposed discipline.

[MrGongGong]

I do not entirely disagree with you but the problem here is that not all teachers and/or parents will necessarily agree on what is or should be regarded as "appropriate"; as I mentioned, I cannot see how wearing a school uniform outside school can be appropriate and it might be seen by some as a means of advertising and marketing, which has little obvious connection with education.

Exactly

The whole "it teaches you discipline" nonsense really needs to be consigned to the bin.
DO we really need the kind of "discipline" that means abandoning your intelligence because someone "superior" to you tells you to do something?

(trying to avoid the obvious WW1 comparison)

I met the queen once, I didn't wear a tie, the world didn't end, she smiled and seemed to enjoy the music I had made with some children who also didn't wear ties.

SELF discipline is an essential for survival I would say. Not the same as imposed discipline.

Learn an instrument, form a band, sing in a choir, record your journeys to school and make a piece from the recordings and so on .......

[Flosshilde]

appropriate clothing for particular occasions .

Quite, but a school uniform that includes a jacket and a tie isn't appropriate for the workshop - dangling ties caught in machinery - or art classes, for example. In fact, it's not appropriate for anything but sitting at a desk quietly, which I suspect is what 'education' consists of for those who believe that uniforms should be worn.

[MrGongGong]

Quite, but a school uniform that includes a jacket and a tie isn't appropriate for the workshop - dangling ties caught in machinery - or art classes, for example. In fact, it's not appropriate for anything but sitting at a desk quietly, which I suspect is what 'education' consists of for those who believe that uniforms should be worn.

The Amiga "workbench" has been replaced by the Windows "desktop" ?