Surely there are more important things that hair colour ?

[P. G. Tipps]

I haven't looked at your article ....

Quite ...

Actually it confirms almost exactly what you say which makes me suspect you had at least a sly glance at it!

School uniforms were proscribed in Germany after the war because of 'Nazi' connotations. However in the DDR at least there was clear pressure to conform by way of the 'sports' route, Pioneer uniforms etc.

Marxist states depend on uniformity and conformity ... it's the evil capitalists who are supposed to promote individualism, isn't it?

[MrGongGong]

Marxist states depend on uniformity and conformity ... it's the evil capitalists who are supposed to promote individualism, isn't it?

FFS

Look in the mirror and repeat after me
"There are more than two ways to look at things"
"The world isn't divided in two"
"Collaboration not competition is how many good things happen"
"There are more things in the world than my tiny brain can imagine"

feel better ?

[P. G. Tipps]

FFS

Look in the mirror and repeat after me
"There are more than two ways to look at things"
"The world isn't divided in two"
"Collaboration not competition is how many good things happen"
"There are more things in the world than my tiny brain can imagine"

feel better ?

Not really ... in fact such strident, lecturing twaddle makes me feel a bit queasy ...

[Richard Barrett]

Actually it confirms almost exactly what you say which makes me suspect you had at least a sly glance at it!

No, PGT, I lived there for a number of years and I know a large number of people who grew up in the DDR. And whatever you say or think about "Marxist states" there were no school uniforms there. Whereas OF COURSE there were sports outfits, just like we had. And there were the Pioniere which had their uniform, distinguished by a scarf just like the Scouts that we had, but NO SCHOOL UNIFORMS. Nothing you say will change that I'm afraid.

[teamsaint]

Quite ...

Actually it confirms almost exactly what you say which makes me suspect you had at least a sly glance at it!

School uniforms were proscribed in Germany after the war because of 'Nazi' connotations. However in the DDR at least there was clear pressure to conform by way of the 'sports' route, Pioneer uniforms etc.

Marxist states depend on uniformity and conformity ... it's the evil capitalists who are supposed to promote individualism, isn't it?

is it?
do they?
have you been in to town recently?

(last I looked, it was the job of all capitalists, the evil and the nice ones, to use their resources to make more money).

[P. G. Tipps]

No, PGT, I lived there for a number of years and I know a large number of people who grew up in the DDR. And whatever you say or think about "Marxist states" there were no school uniforms there. Whereas OF COURSE there were sports outfits, just like we had. And there were the Pioniere which had their uniform, distinguished by a scarf just like the Scouts that we had, but NO SCHOOL UNIFORMS. Nothing you say will change that I'm afraid.

Well you're just repeating what I said and what was contained in the article!

No OFFICIAL school uniforms (due to 'Nazi' connotations) but certainly Party uniforms for school kids!

Either you agree with the idea of uniforms or you don't.

Were school kids in the DDR allowed to wear any uniforms other than those approved by the Communist Party?

[Richard Barrett]

No OFFICIAL school uniforms

Right. No UNOFFICIAL ones either.

Either you agree with the idea of uniforms or you don't.

Untrue. I've already pointed out, twice even, that there are professions for which uniforms are appropriate.

Were school kids in the DDR allowed to wear any uniforms other than those approved by the Communist Party?

They did not wear school uniforms. If the Communist Party said they had to wear school uniforms (as in the USSR) they would have worn school uniforms. However the Communist Party did not say that. So school uniforms were not worn in the DDR.

[ahinton]

Well we would hardly expect you to disagree with RB's post

Who are "we" and why so? My respose was in any case for the purpose of taking apart the article to which you linked and commenting accordingly; the fact that RB is of similar mind on the issue (and he has lived in Germany, after all!) is not really the point.

but the link does tend to suggest that a school uniform issue is not entirely unknown in modern Germany.

Indeed; the point that I raised is that several parts of the article seem to run counter to your thoughts on the subject!

Furthermore, in the comparatively recent Marxist state of the German Democratic Republic uniforms of all kinds were ever-evident.

Compared to what? It's a few weeks now since the fall of the wall, actually...

In this case the answer is clearly 'yes' as you specifically queried my point so it is logical to assume that the only point you were interested in at the time was mine.

If not, why ask such a pointless question in the first place?

Thank you for your confirmation; for the remainder, see above.

[ahinton]

Right. No UNOFFICIAL ones either.

Untrue. I've already pointed out, twice even, that there are professions for which uniforms are appropriate.

They did not wear school uniforms. If the Communist Party said they had to wear school uniforms (as in the USSR) they would have worn school uniforms. However the Communist Party did not say that. So school uniforms were not worn in the DDR.

Head. Bang. (Berlin) Wall. Brick.

I'm trying to imagine P.G.Tipps in a school uniform. But I'm not trying very hard...

[P. G. Tipps]

Right. No UNOFFICIAL ones either.

Untrue. I've already pointed out, twice even, that there are professions for which uniforms are appropriate.

They did not wear school uniforms. If the Communist Party said they had to wear school uniforms (as in the USSR) they would have worn school uniforms. However the Communist Party did not say that. So school uniforms were not worn in the DDR.

Official school uniforms were not worn in the DDR. Party uniforms were worn by schoolkids in the DDR. Let's just stick to these facts. I don't know why you keep banging on about the first because I accepted that right from the start as that information is in the very link I provided!

What I actually said in my original post was .. 'furthermore, in the comparatively recent Marxist state of the German Democratic Republic uniforms of all kinds were ever-evident.'
So the point was a general one about uniforms. At least one member seems to believe that uniforms are a nasty capitalist idea which clearly they are not.

You are right on one thing. In hindsight I'd have been better to leave the DDR out of things when discussing Germany as it gave others the chance to deflect the main argument to something else. Maybe this notorious failed Marxist state disappeared almost overnight because there were no official school uniforms? Who knows? (joke).

Again my original point was to challenge your assertion that school uniforms were mainly a British (and Japanese) practice as if other countries in Europe had never even considered the matter. You specifically referred to Germany as a country where school uniforms were almost unknown and you appeared to suggest that the whole thing was just a silly idea confined to the British (and Japanese).

The link which I posted demonstrated that this is not true and that the debate has recently raged there as well. The current majority opposition to school uniforms in Germany is mostly due to historical factors in much the same way as printing money is when it comes to discussing inflation!

The following passage form the BBC link is revealing:

Unlike in Britain, the image of uniformed youths in the Nazi era led to a well-founded rejection of school uniforms in post-war Germany, he said.

A few German schools have tried introducing uniforms to test the public mood.

One such experiment took place in 2003 at Herkenrath school in Bergisch Gladbach, near Cologne in North Rhine-Westphalia.

"It was a complete success," schoolteacher Monika Thilo told Germany's ZDF television.

"Nobody was ridiculed," she said, adding that the whole school had wanted to adopt the uniform and a sponsor had been found to provide the clothes.

"But the district authority had to reject this request on legal grounds," she said.

Says it all really without the need for further comment from me.

As to the 'appropriateness' of uniforms for certain professions who is to decide what professions are more 'appropriate' than others and indeed for any group including school children?

Surely each profession and group should have the freedom to decide such matters for itself?

[P. G. Tipps]

Who are "we" and why so? My respose was in any case for the purpose of taking apart the article to which you linked and commenting accordingly; the fact that RB is of similar mind on the issue (and he has lived in Germany, after all!) is not really the point.


Indeed; the point that I raised is that several parts of the article seem to run counter to your thoughts on the subject!


Compared to what? It's a few weeks now since the fall of the wall, actually...


Thank you for your confirmation; for the remainder, see above.

Again, ahinton, you have totally missed the point. I really do urge you to read posts properly and then even the minimum of Forum sanity might be mercifully preserved.

As already indicated my link was provided to demonstrate that school uniforms were (are) an issue in modern Germany, NOT to lend support to either side of the debate itself.

If you do take the trouble to check accurately what has been posted it really will save you (and us) a lot of wasted time and effort.

Furthermore I believe that countless millions of people have lived in Germany ... not just RB!

[Dave2002]

While some of you keep this thread banging on, is there any chance of getting the first post title "fixed" I assume that "that" should be "than" - though perhaps it was a deliberate "error" to provoke - one way or another. The OP is able to modify this I think - if not then there are others who can.

[Flosshilde]

The OP is able to modify this I think

No.

[Flosshilde]

Head. Bang. (Berlin) Wall. Brick.

Indeed; the best thing is not to feed him

I'm trying to imagine P.G.Tipps in a school uniform. But I'm not trying very hard...

This might help

http://www.staloysius.org/assets/0002/1956/Swimming_News.JPG

[amateur51]

Not really ... in fact such strident, lecturing twaddle makes me feel a bit queasy ...

And with this post scotty has now entered his favourite part of the 'argument', Last Word Syndrome.

Please don't feed him.