State of the parties as 2015 General Election looms.

[Beef Oven!]

In very basic terms, it does no harm.

But why do you think it makes me narrow-minded?

Well, in case you may not have noticed, when you enter the UK, you have to go through passport check. To me, that could be interpreted as border control.

The verb is meaningful, not the noun.

Where did you get this information? ie where did your do your research?

By looking out of the window and seeing that there is a world outside, and the people in it do not think like you Brits.

[visualnickmos]

So now you presume to know how - possibly all - Brits think. There is something wrong with your window, mate. I know a good Polish glazier.

[MrGongGong]

What!!!!!! So you make sweeping generalisations based solely on "what you think' Unbelievable.

It's the kipper way nick
to assume that you are "normal" and "most people" agree with you

Classic dysfunctional thinking

[Beef Oven!]

So now you presume to know how - possibly all - Brits think.

I was just agreeing with what you said about us being welcoming and lovely people. It was only a couple of days ago, you can't have forgotten already!

There is something wrong with your window, mate. I know a good Polish glazier.

Liar!

[Beef Oven!]

It's the kipper way nick
to assume that you are "normal" and "most people" agree with you

Classic dysfunctional thinking

Quick Gongers, your mate's on Question Time!

You know he's on the money!

[MrGongGong]

Liar!

If that is true it's another recruit for your crew

[Richard Barrett]

You are going to have to run if you are to make St Pauls Hall by this evening!

Ho ho. For those who are interested (about as off topic as you can get) I was playing in a jazz club in Vienna called "Porgy & Bess" with a group by the name of SKEIN (plug => new CD out on Leo Records) - Frank Gratkowski, Achim Kaufmann, Wilbert de Joode, Tony Buck and me.

Re Saudi Arabia being an "internationally-recognised state" so of course were Mao's China, Stalin's USSR, Nazi Germany, Saddam's Iraq, I mean I could go on.

Re the state of the parties, Andrew Mitchell won't be throwing any for a while I think.

[Beef Oven!]

Ho ho. For those who are interested (about as off topic as you can get) I was playing in a jazz club in Vienna called "Porgy & Bess" with a group by the name of SKEIN (plug => new CD out on Leo Records) - Frank Gratkowski, Achim Kaufmann, Wilbert de Joode, Tony Buck and me.

There's a Finnish metal band called Skein that I know of. Was it them?

[Richard Barrett]

There's a Finnish metal band called Skein that I know of. Was it them?

Clearly not.

[Beef Oven!]

Clearly not.

Ok, that's the end of that then.

[P. G. Tipps]

Ho ho. For those who are interested (about as off topic as you can get) I was playing in a jazz club in Vienna called "Porgy & Bess" with a group by the name of SKEIN (plug => new CD out on Leo Records) - Frank Gratkowski, Achim Kaufmann, Wilbert de Joode, Tony Buck and me.

Re Saudi Arabia being an "internationally-recognised state" so of course were Mao's China, Stalin's USSR, Nazi Germany, Saddam's Iraq, I mean I could go on.

Re the state of the parties, Andrew Mitchell won't be throwing any for a while I think.

Ho Ho Ho ...

You seem to not understand (though I'm sure you really do!) that recognising the legitimacy of a state does not indicate approval of the actions of its rulers. So my point was (as again I'm sure you really know) that opposing all the political thugs you mention did not mean that we (minus Flossie, of course) were against the legal existence of China, Russia, Germany and Iraq.

IS, ISIS, or whatever it's called now, is not recognised by anybody but itself and its followers. It is not a country or state though it has called itself the latter in an apparent attempt to pretend it is. So even that band of savage outlaws understands the point only too well if you really and honestly cannot!

Incidentally, the main plank of the Left's opposition to the invasion of Iraq was precisely that the West's actions were deemed to be 'illegal' (no specific UN authority) on the grounds of a state's sovereignty, NOT that it supported or condoned the actions of the thug in charge of that particular state.

I note you're enjoying a bit of schadenfreude at the expense of the now much poorer Mr Mitchell though I suppose for some on the Left it is the classic 'win-win' situation. They would have been gloating in much the same way if News Group Newspapers/Metropolitan Police had lost this stupid, pointless, ruinous case instead. So at least the celebrators here have something very much in common with the money-grabbing lawyers, I suppose ...

Personally I find it sad that any man can somehow self-destruct so publicly and comprehensively on such a serious matter as 'swearing' and, much much worse, allegedly calling a poor, lowly, 'just-doing-his-job', police officer a ... gosh, can hardly bring myself to even say it ... 'pleb'. :yikes::shock-horror::collapse:

Mr GongGong does it all the time here, though, mercifully, I've never seen him/her actually use that disgusting and quite horrid politically-incorrect word, have you ...?

[Richard Barrett]

You seem to not understand

I certainly don't understand what it is that makes beheadings by the state of Saudi Arabia more legitimate or less savage than beheadings by ISIS.

As you say, the Mitchell affair didn't show either side up in a good light. That doesn't make it anything like a "win-win situation" for "some on the Left", or a victory for "political correctness", but an example of how debased so many aspects of political discourse have become. There are blatant symptoms all over the place of how little concern or respect Cameron's government have for anyone who isn't "one of them", and treating policemen like uppity peasants is by no means one of the principal ones.

[ahinton]

I certainly don't understand what it is that makes beheadings by the state of Saudi Arabia more legitimate or less savage than beheadings by ISIS.

As you say, the Mitchell affair didn't show either side up in a good light. That doesn't make it anything like a "win-win situation" for "some on the Left", or a victory for "political correctness", but an example of how debased so many aspects of political discourse have become. There are blatant symptoms all over the place of how little concern or respect Cameron's government have for anyone who isn't "one of them", and treating policemen like uppity peasants is by no means one of the principal ones.

"Political discourse"? It barely retains an existence these days, does it? Not in Parliament, anyway. There are some exceptions, but...

You're completely on the money about Cameron's government, I'm afraid; again, there are exceptions, but... In fact, I don't think that I can recall so blatant a sense of "us and them" withing British governments during my lifetime as is the case with the present one.

[P. G. Tipps]

The sneering and silly name-calling is not exactly one-sided.

Can anyone explain to me why it is quite beyond the pale to call someone a 'pleb' but apparently no problem at all to refer to another as a 'toff'' or 'posh boy' ?

[MrGongGong]

The sneering and silly name-calling is not exactly one-sided.

Can anyone explain to me why it is quite beyond the pale to call someone a 'pleb' but apparently no problem at all to refer to another as a 'toff'' or 'posh boy' ?

You again!
The tradesman's entrance is round the back.