State of the parties as 2015 General Election looms.

[MrGongGong]

Rather than providing countless and ultimately pointless examples that you will immediately dismiss, MrGongGong, the following article has hit the nail right on the head, imv. Whether Orwell was a 'leftist' or not he got it absolutely bang on about the forthcoming hell of 'political correctness' (though he may have been slightly too early with his date predictions!).

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ed...g-to-the-left/

All very well

When i've discussed this with people who say things like, "i'm not free to express myself because of all this PC nonsense", i've asked them exactly what they really mean. It usually comes down to a rather nebulous idea of "free speech" which extends to their "right" to be offensive BUT doesn't cut both ways.

There was a woman on a R4 Vox Pop yesterday who was going on about how she was now "in a minority" (she isn't) and that people "like her" were treated as second class citizens (they aren't). Myths are often more interesting than truths.

So this "hell" of PC prevents YOU doing or saying what exactly ?


(and Farridge is grinning because, as the Independent Photo clear showed, he is on mind altering substances)

[P. G. Tipps]

All very well

When i've discussed this with people who say things like, "i'm not free to express myself because of all this PC nonsense", i've asked them exactly what they really mean. It usually comes down to a rather nebulous idea of "free speech" which extends to their "right" to be offensive BUT doesn't cut both ways.

I agree it should cut both both ways and I uphold everyone's right to be 'offensive' which tends to be very selective according to one's views in any case. I don't want any sort of political correctness. People should be free to speak their minds without silly cries of 'racist' or 'homophobe'.

There was a woman on a R4 Vox Pop yesterday who was going on about how she was now "in a minority" (she isn't) and that people "like her" were treated as second class citizens (they aren't). Myths are often more interesting than truths.

How do you know? Do you know the woman personally? Dismissing her comments as 'myths' when you cannot possibly know the facts (or truth) demonstrates that you don't really want 'to see' or understand what she is saying. That is not to say she is right (I don't know either) but she should be heard and her views treated with respect and not sneered at.

So this "hell" of PC prevents YOU doing or saying what exactly ?

Well, I can think of at least one or two things that would be an 'unacceptable' viewpoint to express on this forum (and most others) so I won't express them. It's a shame but I can live with that. I can't change it so there's little point in banging one's head against a brick wall though I'm well aware I sometimes do appear to do exactly that. :-)

However, it does directly affect other's lives ... Dave Whelan for example. Anyone who genuinely thinks that man is a 'racist' and 'anti-semite' because of the straight-talking way he replied to a news-seeking journalist's question may well need to consider whether any problem in this regard lies with them?

(and Farridge is grinning because, as the Independent Photo clear showed, he is on mind altering substances)

Yes, I know I know, ... that part is a 'joke'!

[teamsaint]

Just to pick up on Dave Whelan for a minute,the problem is that it isn't just his language on this , perhaps isolated occasion.
Actions speak louder than words.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/unpaid-fulltime-job-exposed-at-second-premier-league-side-8570538.html

Saving what amounts to a few days wages for a PL player, and asking interns to work long term for nothing.

[jean]

Well, I can think of at least one or two things that would be an 'unacceptable' viewpoint to express on this forum (and most others) so I won't express them. It's a shame but I can live with that.

That's just self-censorship - nobody else here is stopping you!

[visualnickmos]

I agree it should cut both both ways and I uphold everyone's right to be 'offensive' which tends to be very selective according to one's views in any case. I don't want any sort of political correctness. People should be free to speak their minds without silly cries of 'racist' or 'homophobe'.

So, you think it would be OK for someone to use the 'n' word, to be derogatory about the disabled, deride the faith of others, whose faith you may not share, and so on?

That is quite appalling, if that is your view, based on the quote.

PS This is my last posting in this particular thread. It has ceased to be a discussion, but has descended into a personal attack thread. I'm sick of it, to be quite frank.

[Serial_Apologist]

Now we can recognise the 'elite' we then turn to the 'pseudo-Marxist' claim. Both front-benches have signed-up to 'political-correctness' directed by the State and its very selective idea of 'equality'. All that seems pretty 'Marxist' to me. So we have somehow ended up with socialist millionaires preaching equality and 'free-market' millionaires prattling on about the need for positive discrimination in favour of one gender over the other when it comes to selecting Conservative candidates. Ms Thornberry, so dismissive of a child's normal need for a father claiming it is 'discriminatory', would fully support her fellow-millionaire Tory chums on that, I'm sure!

You've got your knickers in a right old twist this time, teabag. Either it's Marxist, in which case conventionally advocative of the seizure of the means of production and distribution by the proletariat and establishment of its own dictatorship to prevent the bourgeoisie seizing back that power and begin ending the class system, or it's "pseudo-Marxist", and as thus, of no threat to anyone apart from fantasists.

"Beware of those who bear false witness" was once said by someone famous.

[Flosshilde]

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ed...g-to-the-left/

Rather like the Bible (or the Koran, or any other religious book) - interpreted to support whatever position or belief you want.

[amateur51]

That's just self-censorship - nobody else here is stopping you!

Sadly some people need perpetually to see themselves as victims, jean

[Flosshilde]

Now we can recognise the 'elite' we then turn to the 'pseudo-Marxist' claim.

That royal 'we' again.

[Serial_Apologist]

75% of seats in 2015 will have a green candidate.

http://greenparty.org.uk/news/2014/09/22/general-election-2015-green-party-polling-at-7,-and-neck-and-neck-with-the-liberal-democrats/

Nige will be green with envy.

And yet, a UKIP spokesperson was quoted this morning saying that his party could well gain over 40 seats in the forthcoming General Election.

The question as to who is telling the truth about all this must be as troubling to the Beef Ovens and other UKIP apologists as how their leaders are constantly "light-footed" (David Owen's term) on policy changes.

[P. G. Tipps]

That's just self-censorship - nobody else here is stopping you!

Well if you mean I COULD express some now politically-incorrect views here, then suffer the inevitable abuse and end up being described as a 'bigot' or a 'troll' and then decide it might be wiser to exercise some self-censorship in the future, then I suppose that, strictly-speaking, you are correct, jean!

[P. G. Tipps]

Sadly some people need perpetually to see themselves as victims, jean

That has to be the Forum Post of the Year, surely ... ?!! :laugh:

[Flosshilde]

Surely we all exercise self-censorship at times? Don't even you recognise that there are some things that shouldn't be said, either ever or at particular times? It's nothing to do with 'political correctness' (whatever that might be) but with living in a community, with regard for other people.

[amateur51]

Well if you mean I COULD express some now politically-incorrect views here, then suffer the inevitable abuse and end up being described that, strictly-speaking, you are correct, jean!

The key word here is 'now' - scottyTipps' posts are bewailing an Age of Lost Innocence when concepts such as racism, sexism,.and heterosexism knew their place.

Can BO explain why posting a picture of a building bearing to 'English' flags is racist? The 'category' 'English' is not about a race - it can't be given England's history. there are tens of thousands of people who are English who would also want to be known as Indian, Pakistani, Jamaican, Polish, Jewish etc etc. Thornberry's basic mistake was a to wrap up some complex ideas (as yet unspecified by her) in a photograph and a brief Tweet. It was wilfully misunderstood, perhaps? Thanks to the media it is no longer her possession to explain.

[amateur51]

That has to be the Forum Post of the Year, surely ... ?!! :laugh:

Oh no scottyTipps the credit is yours - I'm sure I was quoting you