State of the parties as 2015 General Election looms.

[Beef Oven!]

But is it really, when one has to bear in mind that it sells grocer's apostroph'es, as illustrated by
""One of the world's great café's"
(New York Times)"
innit's blur'b?...

Great breakfasts to be had in NY - thumbsupthingyamebob

[ahinton]

Stop all this, now - use your time writing music.

I asked you a civil question and, having done so without eliciting an answer, I nevertheless promise that I will indeed spend music writing time in writing music but must at the same time note that this does not and indeed should not preclude me from engaging with people on matters other than specifically musical ones.

[teamsaint]

Food and Holland = Oxymoron

Salmon and scrambled eggs. Even the dutch can manage that.

[ahinton]

Food and Holland = Oxymoron

Before even considering what appears to be a particularly gratuitous insult to the population of a particular EU member state, may I point out that The NETHERLANDS is a country where the population speak English and DUTCH and of which HOLLAND is just one part? Thanks.

[ahinton]

Salmon and scrambled eggs. Even the dutch can manage that.

Doubtless, but is an oxymoron a Netherlands speciality dish, do you think? - but, that said, what in any case has the haute cuisine of the Pays-Bas to do with the state of UK political parties in the run-up to next year's UK General Election (which I just happen to have noticed is still the thread topic)?

[Beef Oven!]

I asked you a civil question and, having done so without eliciting an answer..........

The answer is 'no'. Remind me what the question was, please.

[teamsaint]

Ok, so they either live in

Holland
Or
netherlands.
But the people are dutch.

Bonkers.

[teamsaint]

Before even considering what appears to be a particularly gratuitous insult to the population of a particular EU member state, may I point out that The NETHERLANDS is a country where the population speak English and DUTCH and of which HOLLAND is just one part? Thanks.

The BBC and other gravy trains frequently refer to the dutch footy team as being from Holland.

But there is also a Holland in lincolnshire.

Confused?......

[ahinton]

The answer is 'no'. Remind me what the question was, please.

I note that you answer in the negative a question of which you then ask to be reminded, which stable-door-and-horse example surely speaks with sufficient eloquence for itself but, since you have nevertheless asked, The Unanswered Question concerned (which I can only presume you not to have read) was
"do you by chance happen to know who funds MigrationWatch?"

[ahinton]

The BBC and other gravy trains frequently refer to the dutch footy team as being from Holland.

But there is also a Holland in lincolnshire.

Confused?......

No, not really, especially given that Australia was once the "New" version thereof and the country to the south east thereof is named after its westernmost province - and most people don't speak Dutch in either country and neither country is an EU member state. But perhaps we should counsel member Richard who might know more than the rest of us about this, given the existence of Holland & Barrett...

[MrGongGong]

The BBC and other gravy trains frequently refer to the dutch footy team as being from Holland.

But there is also a Holland in lincolnshire.

And a New York
and a Paradise

[Richard Barrett]

Personally I don't think free movement is a fundamental principle of the EU, or rather, one of the principles that make it a worthwhile organisation. It was certainly a founding principle, but that was in a completely different institution and a completely different Europe: an institution with a small number of Western European countries of comparable economic development and in which the Iron Curtain blocking out Eastern Europe seemed a permanent feature. What I think is valuable about the EU is that it should be an organisation promoting democracy, human rights, the rule of law, and peaceful co-operation between its member countries for the improvement of the lives of all citizens, not just favoured groups. I think the disadvantages of free movement now outweigh the advantages and are damaging politics and society, as well as threatening the integrity of the EU.

Thank you for your thought-provoking post, with much of which I disagree, although I don't have the time now to get back to you in detail about the various issues you bring up.

I do want to make clear that I'm not a supporter of the EU. There are plenty of arguments against it from a left perspective, which have nothing to do with the insularity of UKIP and increasingly the major parties, and everything to do with internationalism and democracy. If the EU (and not just the EU) were a truly democratic institution there would be no need for national boundaries as they presently exist, and no reason for economic migration within it. However I don't think that any of its problems would be solved by the UK leaving.

[aeolium]

I do want to make clear that I'm not a supporter of the EU. There are plenty of arguments against it from a left perspective, which have nothing to do with the insularity of UKIP and increasingly the major parties, and everything to do with internationalism and democracy. If the EU (and not just the EU) were a truly democratic institution there would be no need for national boundaries as they presently exist, and no reason for economic migration within it. However I don't think that any of its problems would be solved by the UK leaving.

I agree at least with that last sentence, though my concern is that the serious problems within the EU, not just to do with the free movement principle but also the structure of monetary union and the economic philosophy that now seems to govern it, are creating pressures which are pulling countries away from it rather than bringing them closer together. And I should also make clear that I am very far from being a supporter of UKIP, as I loathe virtually all of its policies that I know of (apart from opposition to HS2), but think they can't simply be dismissed with ridicule and contempt. Unless we understand why people are attracted to them - and to FN in France, and similar other parties across Europe - we cannot begin to formulate ideas and policies which can address that. Austerity economics, as calum mentioned earlier, is clearly a powerful stimulus to support for populist parties since it creates a large class of people who feel economically neglected by the establishment.

[amateur51]

On further investigation I see that MigrationWatch is a company limited by guarantee, a legal structure used often by campaigning organisations who believe that their work would be hobbled by the restrictions placed on charities. So far so fine.

It appears that there are two Directors only of the company, Sir Andrew Green and Lady Green, his wife.

There is also an advisory board appointed presumably by the Directors.

I have not as yet found any financial information breaking down who funds them, other than 'subscribers'.

Sir Andrew Green (soon to be enobled) is the Chairman and public spokesperson. While it might be unfair to describe MigrationWatch as a one-man-band, I could understand someone coming to that conclusion. Who appoints the Directors and what powers the advisory board members have over the work on the organisation & its directors is not clear.

What is clear is that it is not a particularly democratic organisation.

I'd love to know what UCL feels about having its data re-examined and conclusions reformulated in this way.

[MrGongGong]

Personally I don't think free movement is a fundamental principle of the EU, or rather, one of the principles that make it a worthwhile organisation.

I do

I think the disadvantages of free movement now outweigh the advantages and are damaging politics and society, as well as threatening the integrity of the EU.

Really?
Or is it more a case of perception and use of language?