State of the parties as 2015 General Election looms.

[jean]

FFS
There is a HUGE difference between calling someone a "jock" at a football match and calling someone a (excuse the language) "Paki bastard" and beating them to a pulp because they happen to be a different colour than you.

No there isn't.

There is a HUGE difference between Ice Cube referring to himself by the 'N word' and you or I doing it.

Yes, but that's a completely different point.

(You're not helping here.)

[MrGongGong]

No there isn't.

I think there is
because of the power relationship and the context.

Yes, but that's a completely different point.

Not really IMV

[jean]

It's totally different. People taking a racial insult and reclaiming it to use of and among themselves is very different from any outsider using it.

Yes, different power relationships are important. It's very easy to see in some contexts who is powerful and who is powerless, but in others it isn't. As you can see, the harmless appellation Kraut has fuelled some some very violent behaviour.

All such racial jibes are best avoided.

[P. G. Tipps]

And you think of 'the media' as synonymous with 'the PC brigade', do you?

Largely, yes ...

However, even though I strongly disagree with you I respect the logic of your position if only that view was applied fairly and even-handedly which it clearly is not by those in authority in many walks of life today.

Mr GongGong has now amply demonstrated the validity of the point about clear 'double standards' that I've been making all along ...

[MrGongGong]

It's totally different. People taking a racial insult and reclaiming it to use of and among themselves is very different from any outsider using it.
.

That's what I said.

[jean]

No it isn't. Go back and read what you wrote.

Your analogy only works if the people harmlessly calling each other jocks at football matches are all Scots themselves.

You are playing right into Mr Tipps's hands; your categories are about as nuanced as his.

.

[Beef Oven!]

(yawn) What does that make your own "shots" - expensive?

He may be a marvellous parent, but imagine how embarrassing it must be to have to admit that this almost universally loathed individual is your father...You are now asking us to imagine.

Putting our imaginations aside for a moment, for all you know, they may be very proud of him, not embarrassed. You can't know everything.

Universally loathed? In your universe, perhaps. Just because you do not like him, does not mean that everyone has the same view as you; and there is the danger that this forum, with its narrow field of political and ideological views, could be re-enforcing your opinions and causing you to believe that what you believe about the world, people, etc is universal.

On the other hand, this idea of limiting the capability of poorer people to reproduce, or at least spitefully making it that bit more difficult for them, is a case in point, is it not. IDS himself says such a move would "help behavioural change". It will certainly help people understand what kind of person he is and what the priorities of his party are, denying a few pounds a week (enough to make a difference to many people) to one sector of society while showering the already wealthy with tax breaks, bank bailouts and the like. I don't know about you but I'm very glad my own father wasn't someone like that.

Limiting the capability of poorer people to reproduce, or not having other people pay for your 3rd 4th etc children? I guess that's the question.

[MrGongGong]

No it isn't. Go back and read what you wrote.

I said this

There is a HUGE difference between Ice Cube referring to himself by the 'N word' and you or I doing it.

The other thing I said referred to people who knew each other having a bit of 'banter' at a football match.

[Beef Oven!]

I said this



The other thing I said referred to people who knew each other having a bit of 'banter' at a football match.

I thought you 'didn't do football'?

[jean]

The other thing I said referred to people who knew each other having a bit of 'banter' at a football match.

You forgot to insert the bit in bold.

[amateur51]

Putting our imaginations aside for a moment, for all you know, they may be very proud of him, not embarrassed. You can't know everything.

Universally loathed? In your universe, perhaps. Just because you do not like him, does not mean that everyone has the same view as you; and there is the danger that this forum, with its narrow field of political and ideological views, could be re-enforcing your opinions and causing you to believe that what you believe about the world, people, etc is universal.





Limiting the capability of poorer people to reproduce, or not having other people pay for your 3rd 4th etc children? I guess that's the question.

I loathe him, if that's any help.

I have many friends whose lives have been tormented by ATOS and DWP and the huge waiting times for decisions to be made, people who end up in tears on a daily basis, living in a sort of limbo.

And when these experiences are put to IDS as evidence that 'things aren't working' by interviewers, he scoffs, gets all self-righteous and denies it all.

Torture and the CIA? ATOS/DWP? All part of the same package, chum.

[Richard Barrett]

Limiting the capability of poorer people to reproduce, or not having other people pay for your 3rd 4th etc children? I guess that's the question.

Indeed so. Who pays for IDS's third and fourth children, for example?

[Beef Oven!]

Indeed so. Who pays for IDS's third and fourth children, for example?

I find that a bit cryptic, How do you mean?

[ahinton]

Indeed so. Who pays for IDS's third and fourth children, for example?

Well, I imagine that IDS himself does, but then he can almost certainly afford to do so; the point here is that, as I mentioned earlier, this proposal risks exacerbating divisiveness between those with 2+ children who are poor and need the benefit most but will be denied it for any more than 2 and those who are not poor and don't need to claim benefits anyway. As I also said, the party seems not to be going overboard to make itself electable if this is an example of its intentions.

[jean]

Well, I imagine that IDS himself does...

We taxpayers pay at least that part of his income that is his salary as an MP, don't we?