State of the parties as 2015 General Election looms.

[jean]

Well if you mean I COULD express some now politically-incorrect views here, then suffer the inevitable abuse and end up being described as a 'bigot' or a 'troll' and then decide it might be wiser to exercise some self-censorship in the future, then I suppose that, strictly-speaking, you are correct, jean!

The abuse you speak of is surely only other people expressing their opinions freely, isn't it?

[P. G. Tipps]

The abuse you speak of is surely only other people expressing their opinions freely, isn't it?

No ... the abuse is solely to prevent others expressing theirs!

There is a clear connection here between that and 'political correctness'.

However, I can easily live with any verbal abuse ... it's the PC culture that drives me (and many others) up the proverbial wall!

[jean]

However, I can easily live with any verbal abuse ...

Then there's nothing stopping you from expressing your opinions, is there?

[Anna]

Thornberry's basic mistake was a to wrap up some complex ideas (as yet unspecified by her) in a photograph and a brief Tweet. It was wilfully misunderstood, perhaps? Thanks to the media it is no longer her possession to explain.

Those who think the photo is racist have missed the point. In explaining the tweet she said " “I’ve never seen anything like it before. It had three huge flags covering the whole house. I thought it was remarkable. I’ve never seen a house completely covered in flags.”

For a Labour politician to admit she has never seen such a sight reinforces the view held by many that here is yet another champagne socialist, living in her £3m house in Islington, who is completely out of touch with the working class - a class the Labour Party is supposed to represent. I think it was Tony Blair who said (perhaps to Mandelson or was it vice-versa?) "don't worry about the core voters, they have nowhere else to go." Ms. Thornberry's crime was to further alienate their core voters (imo) who now see they have somewhere else to go.

[P. G. Tipps]

Didn't you read #611 ... ?

[Beef Oven!]

Those who think the photo is racist have missed the point. In explaining the tweet she said " “I’ve never seen anything like it before. It had three huge flags covering the whole house. I thought it was remarkable. I’ve never seen a house completely covered in flags.”

For a Labour politician to admit she has never seen such a sight reinforces the view held by many that here is yet another champagne socialist, living in her £3m house in Islington, who is completely out of touch with the working class - a class the Labour Party is supposed to represent. I think it was Tony Blair who said (perhaps to Mandelson or was it vice-versa?) "don't worry about the core voters, they have nowhere else to go." Ms. Thornberry's crime was to further alienate their core voters (imo) who now see they have somewhere else to go.

People should stop apologising for this woman's racial stereo-typing of white working class people.

She took a photograph of someone's home and uploaded it to Twitter. Outrageous.

You are entitled to your alternative opinion that "Ms. Thornberry's crime was to further alienate their [Labour] core voters".

If someone had tweeted a racial stereotype image of a black or Asian or other minority ethnic group, I imagine you would understand better how outrageous such behaviour is.

[jean]

For a Labour politician to admit she has never seen such a sight reinforces the view held by many that here is yet another champagne socialist, living in her £3m house in Islington, who is completely out of touch with the working class...

It's rather that anyone who thinks this is a common sight, or indeed any sight at all outside of World Cup finals, who's completely out of touch with the working class.

I live in a densely-populated grid of Victorian terraces whose inhabitants contain a good proportion of genuine working-class people, and today there is not a flag to be seen.

If there were an election looming and such flags suddenly appeared, I think we could be fairly sure what message they were supposed to convey.

[Beef Oven!]

It's rather that anyone who thinks this is a common sight, or indeed any sight at all outside of World Cup finals, who's completely out of touch with the working class.

I live in a densely-populated grid of Victorian terraces whose inhabitants contain a good proportion of genuine working-class people, and today there is not a flag to be seen.

It doesn't matter what you or I anecdote about. As I've said previously, when I see these flags on balconies or from windows, I've often wondered what point of it is, outside of football match times. It's quite common.

The only people disputing that the tweet was a racial stereotype are the faux-left, liberal cosmopolitan elite, or whatever it is you guys call yourselves.

Everyone knows what the white van and English flag malarky means, except you, perhaps.

Anyway, what's 'a good proportion' and what are 'genuine working class people'? Or more to the point, who are the working class people who are not genuine?

[jean]

...Or more to the point, who are the working class people who are not genuine?

Well me for one, obviously.

[french frank]

Everyone knows what the white van and English flag malarky means, except you, perhaps.

You seem to have spent a good deal of time out of the country in recent years (didn't know why a mention of Jeremy Clarkson's 'protestations of innocence' were relevant to a discussion?), but perhaps you could dissect, analytically, why posting a photograph of a modern terraced 'town house' with flags hung over it and a white van parked in front of it might be seized on as 'snobbish' by the right-wing press?

That it was sized on as snobbish and 'anti white working class' was a matter of embarrassment to the Labour Party and Ed Miliband, and I took it that that was why the MP resigned. It was a scalp for the right's propaganda machine.

As for getting 40 MPs at the next election, why not aim for 60? or 80? In 1983 the Liberal-SDP Alliance won 23 seats, an increase of 12 on the previous 11 seats held by the Liberals. And that was after huge byelection swings, and then gaining the highest percentage of the popular vote by a third party since 1923.

[Beef Oven!]

Originally posted by french frank

You seem to have spent a good deal of time out of the country in recent years (didn't know why a mention of Jeremy Clarkson's 'protestations of innocence' were relevant to a discussion?), but perhaps you could dissect, analytically, why posting a photograph of a modern terraced 'town house' with flags hung over it and a white van parked in front of it might be seized on as 'snobbish' by the right-wing press?

If you need that sort of thing, do it yerself. It's clear what the white van and Inger-land flags mean.

That it was sized on as snobbish and 'anti white working class' was a matter of embarrassment to the Labour Party and Ed Miliband, and I took it that that was why the MP resigned. It was a scalp for the right's propaganda machine.

When are people going to stop making excuses for this woman?

As for getting 40 MPs at the next election, why not aim for 60? or 80? In 1983 the Liberal-SDP Alliance won 23 seats, an increase of 12 on the previous 11 seats held by the Liberals. And that was after huge byelection swings, and then gaining the highest percentage of the popular vote by a third party since 1923.

Why do you address this to me? I am not the UKIP and I haven't said anything about how many seats any of the parties will win in the 2015 general election. And btw, you need to get over the melt-down of the LibDems.

[Beef Oven!]

Well me for one, obviously.

Do you mean that you were working class, but you are no longer?

[Beef Oven!]

Well, Nidge clearly thinks he's going to be deputy prime minister!

It's gonna be some general election!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30143958

[ahinton]

(and Farridge is grinning because, as the Independent Photo clear showed, he is on mind altering substances)

Again, sorry to quote Sorabji, but he did also (more than) once make a remark to the effect that the best thing about changing one's mind is having a mind to change in the first place; the same would arguably go for changes of mind brought about by substances as it would for othewise occasioned changes of mind...

[ahinton]

And yet, a UKIP spokesperson was quoted this morning saying that his party could well gain over 40 seats in the forthcoming General Election.

If they managed to do that despite fielding only a dozen candidates, they'd have achieved something as unique as it would be suspect. It rather reminds me of the thoughts that came to what passes for my mind on the occasion in HoC when one Ed Miliband referred to my MP as "the member for Hereford and South Hertfordshire", namely that I thought Johnny two-jags for Mr (now Lord) Prescott was bad enough but Jesse two-constituencies must surely be illegal...