Promises promises

[Flosshilde]

Nick Clegg has promised not to make the same mistake again (referring to the tuition fees debacle). Unfortunately, in his view, the mistake is not going back on a commitment, but making the commitment in the first place.

[P. G. Tipps]

There was nothing wrong with the commitment, and as he himself said people should remember the Lib Dem policies that became law as a result of Coalition.

If I were a Lib Dem (which I'm certainly not!) I would give Clegg his due. All of these new initially Lib Dem measures would never have become reality without his agreement with Cameron. I say that with a heavy heart over my total opposition to at least one of them.

Obviously the tuition fees issue had to be sacrificed as part of the Coalition compromise but his success in other areas cannot be denied.

I cannot understand the failure of some to recognise that any pre-election promises made by the Lib Dems were rendered irrelevant as the Party was never elected into Government but entered a Coalition instead. Quite a different matter!

Clegg grasped the opportunity of a lifetime (Alex Salmond's favourite phrase) and I think in years hence people will recognise he was actually a pretty shrewd leader who had more political brains than Cameron (not particularly difficult, I concede).

Give the man (Clegg) some credit!

[MrGongGong]

T
Give the man (Clegg) some credit!

For being dishonest ?
or saying "sorry"
and they STILL don't understand why people are angry about it !!!!!

Obviously the tuition fees issue had to be sacrificed as part of the Coalition compromise but his success in other areas cannot be denied.

Like what ?

Pretending that somehow they have "tamed" the evil tories doesn't wash.
Facilitating their abusive behaviour is a sad dereliction of everything his party used to stand for.

[Flosshilde]

Obviously the tuition fees issue had to be sacrificed as part of the Coalition compromise but his success in other areas cannot be denied.

Obviously??

What they have done is to make the Tories more pallatable to the softer conservatives who might have been appalled at the real Tory policies, & thereby making it more possible that the Tories might be the party with the largest number of seats again next time.

Clegg's greatest failure is mucking up the chance to get a form of proportional representation in place & reform of the Lords. Ably helped, it has to be said, by Labour, even if it was for the best of motives.

[MrGongGong]

Clegg's greatest failure is mucking up the chance to get a form of proportional representation in place & reform of the Lords. .

Spot on
Completely f*cked that up
which WAS supposed to be one of the things they "believed" in
How many generations will it be before the possibility of actually having a representative voting system is a possibility ?

[P. G. Tipps]

Spot on
Completely f*cked that up
which WAS supposed to be one of the things they "believed" in
How many generations will it be before the possibility of actually having a representative voting system is a possibility ?

Didn't we have a referendum on that very subject a few years ago ..?

Don't you believe that the will of the majority should prevail?

[P. G. Tipps]

For being dishonest ?
or saying "sorry"
and they STILL don't understand why people are angry about it !!!!!

Well some people can be as angry as they like but that only reveals a total misunderstanding of Coalition Government!

I was actually surprised to hear Clegg talking about his 'mistake' on tuition fees today. That was obviously for naive conference and public consumption. It wasn't a 'mistake' at all.

He probably hadn't a cat in hell's chance of persuading the Tories on tuition fees anyway and so he bartered that pre-election policy in order to get some other Lib Dem measures passed.

From a Lib Dem point of view that seems eminently sensible to me. The alternative would have been to decline coalition and remain in impotent opposition getting absolutely no Lib Dem measures passed!

It amazes me that some apparently still can't see this?

[MrGongGong]

Didn't we have a referendum on that very subject a few years ago ..?

Don't you believe that the will of the majority should prevail?

NO we didn't
PR wasn't offered as an option

I was actually surprised to hear Clegg talking about his 'mistake' on tuition fees today. That was obviously for naive conference and public consumption. It wasn't a 'mistake' at all.

I'm sure you are happy to trust someone who says he will do one thing and then does the opposite.
But I (like many others) am not.

(sorry FF we've been round this a thousand times)

[P. G. Tipps]

I'm sure you are happy to trust someone who says he will do one thing and then does the opposite.
But I (like many others) am not.

(sorry FF we've been round this a thousand times)

Well, I certainly wouldn't be so unfair to hold someone to a promise when the circumstances crucial to the promise didn't actually arise and therefore the delivery of the promise couldn't be effected.

It's a bit like a football manager promising that his club will win the league if he gets £100m to spend on players, then being accused of breaking his promise by not winning the league after he is only given £10m ...

[MrGongGong]

Well, I certainly wouldn't be so unfair to hold someone to a promise when the circumstances crucial to the promise didn't actually arise and therefore the delivery of the promise couldn't be effected.

It's a bit like a football manager promising that his club will win the league if he gets £100m to spend on players, then being accused of breaking his promise by not winning the league after he is only given £10m ...

It's not like that at all

Clegg made what he called a "pledge"
to most people (and your dictionary Scotty if it is you ?) that either means a type of household polish
OR
something you say you WILL do
If you can't do it, you don't go and do the opposite.

If he REALLY thought that he would have declared the election inconclusive and we would have had another one.

What's the point in having ANY policies at all if you throw them away at the first sniff of power ?

[Flosshilde]

(sorry FF we've been round this a thousand times)

& I should apologise for starting it up again. But this particular case seems to echo the politician's (& not only them) non-apology - "I apologise if what I said/did upset you" rather than "I apologise for what I said" - they never quite seem to understand what it was they did that was wrong.

[P. G. Tipps]

I give up ... <smiley>

[MrGongGong]

& I should apologise for starting it up again. But this particular case seems to echo the politician's (& not only them) non-apology - "I apologise if what I said/did upset you" rather than "I apologise for what I said" - they never quite seem to understand what it was they did that was wrong.

Spot on
Pathological denial ?

I really don't think he (and his supporters) understand at all.
It's a very worrying trait in someone who wants to be in charge of things

Unlike the football manager analogy, it's more like

Going to a restaurant and ordering their signature dish of scallops and black pudding
The waiter takes your order and goes to the kitchen
Ten minutes later he comes back with a plate of broken glass
They didn't have any scallops left so he brought what they have

[ahinton]

Well some people can be as angry as they like but that only reveals a total misunderstanding of Coalition Government!

...broadly equivalent to that of those charged with running said government, one might argue...

I was actually surprised to hear Clegg talking about his 'mistake' on tuition fees today. That was obviously for naive conference and public consumption. It wasn't a 'mistake' at all.

For the very reason that you rightly provide here, I wasn't at all surprised at this, actually.

He probably hadn't a cat in hell's chance of persuading the Tories on tuition fees anyway and so he bartered that pre-election policy in order to get some other Lib Dem measures passed.

From a Lib Dem point of view that seems eminently sensible to me.

Indeed; there's nothing like a sharp dose of corrupt practice sweetened by weaselly mealy-mouthedness, especially in the upper echelons of government where it perhaps most appropriately belongs.

The alternative would have been to decline coalition and remain in impotent opposition getting absolutely no Lib Dem measures passed!

Such an alternative would likely have undermined the coalition to the point of necessitating another General Election.

It amazes me that some apparently still can't see this?

For the reasons I gave above, I cannot say that it amazes me...

[ahinton]

& I should apologise for starting it up again. But this particular case seems to echo the politician's (& not only them) non-apology - "I apologise if what I said/did upset you" rather than "I apologise for what I said" - they never quite seem to understand what it was they did that was wrong.

It's just a typical politician's weaselly mealy-mouthedness in turning the apology onto whoever he/she's apologising to as though implying that it was his/her fault for being upset by what the politician had said rather than the politician's fault for saying it in the first place; I don't think, however, that, in most such cases, the politician doesn't understand that what it was that he/she did and/or said was wrong but that he/she can almost always be relied upon to go that extra mile in order not to admit it!

I blames that Roy Tucker meself...