Is Nick Clegg the Roy Tucker of Politics?

[P. G. Tipps]

Don't be stupid - of course not.

But, dear Scotty, you have always had a tendency not to address other people's arguments & what they actually say, but what you think, or imagine, they might have said.

That poor dear Scotty ... he sounds like a complete and utter prat, that's for sure. No wonder you have acquired such exemplary patience here, Flosshilde.

You seemed to suggest in your post that my point about the Lib Dems being in coalition with those horrid evil Tories, and not in government on their own, was merely an opinion and not a fact.

Have I maybe imagined this whole Coalition thing for four long years?

Nurse!

[amateur51]

Quite
Trying to scare people into thinking that somehow the world would come to an end if we didn't have "decisive" government really won't fool everyone.

The only party that actually DOES offer a different view is the Greens and there's no chance of significant numbers of people voting for them.

Particularly people in Brighton, I imagine :whistleydoodah:

[amateur51]

So you are saying that Mr Clegg and the Lib Dems being in Coalition Government rather than governing on their own is just my opinion and not a fact?

Of course politicians have to make choices ... the point is that they have to ultimately make these choices in the real world and not in an imaginary one in which they hold full power and on which they all base their pre-election promises!

Oh so the Education pledge was an imaginary pledge made in an imaginary world?

I suspect that it was a tad more venal than that, scotty.

[french frank]

Oh so the Education pledge was an imaginary pledge made in an imaginary world?

The pledge was real but it was in an imaginary world - imagining what would be possible after all the votes were counted. After that the world becomes real, the pledge becomes illusory ...

[amateur51]

The pledge was real but it was in an imaginary world - imagining what would be possible after all the votes were counted. After that the world becomes real, the pledge becomes illusory ...

So why go to the trouble of having it designed, printed & published unless you wanted to foo ... surely not!

[P. G. Tipps]

Oh so the Education pledge was an imaginary pledge made in an imaginary world?

I suspect that it was a tad more venal than that, scotty.

You're half there, scotty!

The pledge wasn't imaginary but the world it applied to certainly was and it never actually came to pass, you see..

Put another way, if Mr Clegg's imaginary world of a Lib Dem Government did actually come about, and he then broke his pledge, I would be the first to agree that he is an absolute bounder and that all we non-bounders had an absolute right to be angry and bitter and twisted.

But the imaginary world didn't happen and, therefore, any anger and bitterness is misplaced, imho ... though I'm pretty sure Mr Clegg won't make the same 'mistake' ever again!

Ah, politicians ... don't we just love 'em, amateur51?!

[MrGongGong]

The pledge wasn't imaginary but the world it applied to certainly was and it never actually came to pass, you see..

You are simply WRONG
it really is very simple
You don't PROMISE (there's a clue in the word) to do one thing then turn around and do the opposite to maintain your status.
That is dishonest and unethical.

What would possibly be a good thing would be (particularly in the light of the Scottish Referendum turnout) for the next election to have a single figure turnout.
The government we have already has no mandate to do many of the things it's doing as it is.

[french frank]

So why go to the trouble of having it designed, printed & published unless you wanted to foo ... surely not!

Aren't you getting a bit muddled? Who had what designed, printed and published?

[P. G. Tipps]

You are simply WRONG
it really is very simple.

Well, whilst I feel certain that you might not expect me to agree with your first point, I agree wholeheartedly with your second!

You don't PROMISE (there's a clue in the word) to do one thing then turn around and do the opposite to maintain your status.
That is dishonest and unethical.

Not necessarily, MrGongGong ...

For example, to return to the filthy lucre analogy, if I promised to marry you in the event that I won £100,000,000,000 on the National Lottery, and then I discovered that my ticket was the usual dud, would you then say that it would be dishonest and unethical if I were to then feel forced to withdraw my original very kind and most tempting offer?

[MrGongGong]

For example, to return to the filthy lucre analogy, if I promised to marry you in the event that I won £100,000,000,000 on the National Lottery, and then I discovered that my ticket was the usual dud, would you then say that it would be dishonest and unethical if I were to then feel forced to withdraw my original very kind and most tempting offer?

That's not a good comparison at all
THIS is what he said

“I pledge to vote against any increase in fees in the next parliament and to pressure the government to introduce a fairer alternative.”

It is very simple
He could have voted against any increase in fees
He didn't

It wasn't conditional on anything
It was a simple statement of intent

[P. G. Tipps]

It wasn't conditional on anything
It was a simple statement of intent

We all intend doing a lot of things in life. It has to be conditional to some degree.

Would you still have expected Mr Clegg to fulfil his promise if, say, he had lost his parliamentary seat?!

[amateur51]

Aren't you getting a bit muddled? Who had what designed, printed and published?

The LibDems had their education pledge designed printed and published. Here's Nick holding up a copy

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=S6abyx6uMj79_M&tbnid=M4KaMeeu5UeqWM:&ved=0CAcQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fanotherangryvoice.blogspot.com%2F2011%2F09%2Flib-dem-betrayal-reform-clegg.html&ei=nc82VKH3IrK1sQTk7IHIDw&bvm=bv.77161500,d.ZGU&psig=AFQjCNGr_KhpHRZHuYuoz0lWFdRZSlfSnw&ust=1412964620550745

Nothing muddled about that.

[amateur51]

We all intend doing a lot of things in life. It has to be conditional to some degree.

Would you still have expected Mr Clegg to fulfil his promise if, say, he had lost his parliamentary seat?!

Oh come now scotty!

Part of the reason that Nick made that pledge was to ensure that he wouldn't lose his parliamentary seat.

[MrGongGong]

We all intend doing a lot of things in life. It has to be conditional to some degree.

Would you still have expected Mr Clegg to fulfil his promise if, say, he had lost his parliamentary seat?!

I'm not sure HOW he could have done that
BUT it wasn't a conditional thing at all.
OR if it was it should have been worded as such.

A statement of intent which DID have the possibility of being carried out but wasn't.

Why do people try to excuse this ?

[french frank]

The LibDems had their education pledge designed printed and published. Here's Nick holding up a copy

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=S6abyx6uMj79_M&tbnid=M4KaMeeu5UeqWM:&ved=0CAcQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fanotherangryvoice.blogspot.com%2F2011%2F09%2Flib-dem-betrayal-reform-clegg.html&ei=nc82VKH3IrK1sQTk7IHIDw&bvm=bv.77161500,d.ZGU&psig=AFQjCNGr_KhpHRZHuYuoz0lWFdRZSlfSnw&ust=1412964620550745

Nothing muddled about that.

Isn't that the pledge designed, printed and published by the NUS rather than by the Liberal Democrats? And distributed to all the 2010 parliamentary candidates? In that sense 'muddled'.