Islamic State - another unwinnable war?

[ahinton]

Godwin ?

So why is one group of people chopping off the heads of people they don't like an act of the "barbarian"
and another group of people chopping heads worthy of selling fighter jets and trade ?

Why is it OK to bomb children in Gaza but not elsewhere ?

They are ALL wrong IMV

Of course!

Unless our government starts to act with a bit of consistency then we really are doomed.

Yes, but consistency alone isn't enough; the first thing that they need to do is address the sources of funding that enable IS to do what it's doing.

You can't "defeat" an idea with fighter jets, soldiers or bombs, i'm no historian but isn't that what history shows ?

Quite - and you can't easliy defeat an enemy unless and until you are first able to locate and identify every part thereof.

[MrGongGong]

Yes, but consistency alone isn't enough; the first thing that they need to do is address the sources of funding that enable IS to do what it's doing.

Indeed
Though that's likely to be a rather sticky moment for some of our "leaders"

[ahinton]

Indeed
Though that's likely to be a rather sticky moment for some of our "leaders"

As indeed I implied above with my reference to mirrors (and my accidental omission of "smoke" in that context).

This is by no means the first time that this kind of thing has happened, of course; one could examine with unbiased but probing eyes any and all of the recent Middle Eastern based troubles and discover the enabling factor of Western finance all too often uncomfortably close thereto. Were those "leaders" whom you mention - or even only some of them - to be totally honest and admit to their own and their countries' and bankers' complicity in this kind of thing, the well-deserved respect that they'd earn would likely be considerable and the subssequent consequences could become very positive indeed; cut off a significant proportion of the supply of funds to IS and it would find itself neutered, just as countries such as Ukraine, Moldova, Belarus et al would find themselves to be if Russia were to turn off the gas taps (not that I'm advocating the latter, of course - merely pointing out the outcome of the cutting off of vital supplies - so perhaps a "stop feeding the troll" line might have been a better illustration of what needs to be done).

[amateur51]

I think George Galloway MP summed up in Parliament last Friday the likely causes of the failure of the 'strategy' against ISIS in terms comprehensible to even the Scots member from bosky Cheshire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4JNtLn54Ic

[johnb]

As indeed I implied above with my reference to mirrors (and my accidental omission of "smoke" in that context).

This is by no means the first time that this kind of thing has happened, of course; one could examine with unbiased but probing eyes any and all of the recent Middle Eastern based troubles and discover the enabling factor of Western finance all too often uncomfortably close thereto. Were those "leaders" whom you mention - or even only some of them - to be totally honest and admit to their own and their countries' and bankers' complicity in this kind of thing, the well-deserved respect that they'd earn would likely be considerable and the subssequent consequences could become very positive indeed; cut off a significant proportion of the supply of funds to IS and it would find itself neutered, just as countries such as Ukraine, Moldova, Belarus et al would find themselves to be if Russia were to turn off the gas taps (not that I'm advocating the latter, of course - merely pointing out the outcome of the cutting off of vital supplies - so perhaps a "stop feeding the troll" line might have been a better illustration of what needs to be done).

If you are implying that Western powers financed ISIS I think you are mistaken. The massive financing of the Sunni jihadi groups came mainly from Saudi Arabia and Qatar, both of which loath the Shias. I would guess that ISIS now has access to other funds, e.g. from the oil fields it has taken over.

[amateur51]

If you are implying that Western powers financed ISIS I think you are mistaken. The massive financing of the Sunni jihadi groups came mainly from Saudi Arabia and Qatar, both of which loath the Shias. I would guess that ISIS now has access to other funds, e.g. from the oil fields it has taken over.

That would be the same Saudi Arabia that was involved in the BAE corruption investigation that PM Blair was personally involved in terminqting.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/dec/21/bae.tonyblair

No longer PM, Blair is the Middle East peace envoy for the Quartet.Given that he knows where the bodies are buried over BAE and successfully terminated the embarassing investigation at the Saudi's behest, could he not be leant on to bring this role andhis diplomatic skills to bear in the matter of funding ISIS?

After all, a good many people who are in a position to judge don't seem to be that impressed with his achievements thus far.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jun/23/tony-blair-middle-east-envoy-quartet-sacked

[P. G. Tipps]

I think George Galloway MP summed up in Parliament last Friday the likely causes of the failure of the 'strategy' against ISIS in terms comprehensible to even the Scots member from bosky Cheshire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4JNtLn54Ic

What a tangled weave we web, eh, scotty ... ? <laugh>

G.G. like so many of our politicians, is an actor first and foremost and I always enjoy his maverick and entertaining contributions, however messed-up!

[johnb]

That would be the same Saudi Arabia that was involved in the BAE corruption investigation that PM Blair was personally involved in terminqting.

What on earth has that got to do with the price of bread?

[johnb]

What a tangled weave we web, eh, scotty ... ? <laugh>

G.G. like so many of our politicians, is an actor first and foremost and I always enjoy his maverick and entertaining contributions, however messed-up!

It must be very tempting for you to pour scorn on GG's speech but, although his manner of delivery is off-putting, the gist of what he said is spot on. Other than his dubious rhetorical flourishes, do say what you disagree with.

[ahinton]

If you are implying that Western powers financed ISIS I think you are mistaken. The massive financing of the Sunni jihadi groups came mainly from Saudi Arabia and Qatar, both of which loath the Shias. I would guess that ISIS now has access to other funds, e.g. from the oil fields it has taken over.

I didn't - or at least didn't intend - to suggest that any or all of such financing has been or is direct, but I do believe that there is sufficient evidence that the West had indirectly enabled the financing of all manner of what's now being paraded by the West as suspect conduct at the very least; Saudi and Qatar, indeed - just think for a moment from where some of the investment in those countries has come...

[amateur51]

What on earth has that got to do with the price of bread?

Saudi Arabia is funding ISIS. Tony Blair is Middle East peace envoy. Tony Blair stopped an investigation into corruption between BAE & Saudi Arabia. He might have some sway with Saudi Arabia about funding ISIS therefore.

That's all.

[johnb]

I didn't - or at least didn't intend - to suggest that any or all of such financing has been or is direct, but I do believe that there is sufficient evidence that the West had indirectly enabled the financing of all manner of what's now being paraded by the West as suspect conduct at the very least; Saudi and Qatar, indeed - just think for a moment from where some of the investment in those countries has come...

Are you seriously saying that you think Saudi Arabia and Qatar (the richest country in the world on a per capita basis) both flooded with oil money, need investment from the US to enable them to fund ISIS? Come on.

[johnb]

Saudi Arabia is funding ISIS. Tony Blair is Middle East peace envoy. Tony Blair stopped an investigation into corruption between BAE & Saudi Arabia. He might have some sway with Saudi Arabia about funding ISIS therefore.

That's all.

I get you. Tony Blair was part of a conspiracy to persuade Saudi Arabia to fund ISIS. Silly me, why didn't I think of that.

Presumably he also stoked the hatred that the Saudis have of the Shias.

[P. G. Tipps]

It must be very tempting for you to pour scorn on GG's speech but, although his manner of delivery is off-putting, the gist of what he said is spot on. Other than his dubious rhetorical flourishes, do say what you disagree with.

Let me put it like this, johnb, without repeating all my previous posts ...

The vote in the Commons following Mr Galloway's speech was 524-43 against 'the gist of what he said'.

I believe the views of the overwhelming majority of MPs, including the leadership of the three main parties, were 'spot-on' on this occasion, not those of Mr Galloway!

Trust you can now spot the area of disagreement!

[ahinton]

Are you seriously saying that you think Saudi Arabia and Qatar (the richest country in the world on a per capita basis) both flooded with oil money, need investment from the US to enable them to fund ISIS? Come on.

"Flooded with oil money", yes, indeed - but whose? Do you believe that these two countries are self-sufficient economically to the extent of requiring no external investment from anywhere else?