Fake Dr dies

[P. G. Tipps]

He became chums with his enemies
but remained a bigot to the end

Sometimes one doesn't know whether to laugh or cry at such a clearly contradictory and illogical statement.

Enough!

[MrGongGong]

Sometimes one doesn't know whether to laugh or cry at such a clearly contradictory and illogical statement.

Enough!

There's nothing contradictory in that at all

If (as he believed) there is a Heaven and Hell he will most definitely be in the latter

"LOGIC" :HA HA HA: that's such a Scotty remark

[amateur51]

Well, I humbly suggest it is far from being a 'woeful comparison'. Your reason for branding it as such is pure subjective conjecture.

Of course, as I've said before, no comparison is perfect. There will always be differences though in a good comparison these do not affect the essental point being made.

Mandela went from freedom fighter/terrorist to eventual peace terms with his sworn enemies and finally leader of S. Africa.

Paisley went from ranting bigot/flirting with terrorist paramilitaries to eventual peace terms with his sworn enemies and finally becoming leader of N. Ireland.

The change in attitude/policy of both was crucial to the advancement of peace in both cases.

The same has to be said of those on the other side(s) as well and I would imagine that the huge majority of objective and fair-minded folk will easily concur with what they see here as pretty damn obvious!

Remind me of the time when Paisley was put on trial in a show trial. Remind me of Paisley's imprisonment. Remind me of Paisley's harassment by the government. And that of his family. And his colleagues and supporters. no comparisions are perfect you say, but without these the comparisons are futile.

You are back to your Great Obsession again. I assume when you talk about 'rights' you are referring to so-called 'equal marriage'?

As far as my memory serves, only two members here have referred to my raising of LGBTQ issues as a Great Obsession - scottycelt and BeefOven! You're not witty enough to be the latter so you are scottycelt - I rest my case![/QUOTE]

If so, the European Court of Human Rights does not agree with you ...

http://www.breitbart.com/BreitbartLondon/2014/07/25/European-Human-Rights-Court-Says-No-Right-to-Same-Sex-Marriage

By all means hold any opinions you wish but please try to understand that these do not necessarily bear any relation to fact.

It isn't clear what parts of my previous posting you are referring to here but I'm talking about laws that apply in England, Wales and Scotland but as yet not in Northern Ireland largely because of the dead hand of Paisley Snr & Jnr. In my country we call this a legal anomaly and I hope it is one that is resolved soon.

Furthermore,. Mr Ian Paisley Jnr is perfectly entitled to his own opinions in a democratic society even if they upset you greatly and especially as, unlike you, he actually lives in N.I.!

Quite so. You are stating the obvious. However he'd do better in other parts of the Commonwealth with attitudes such as he has on these matters, I suspect.

[amateur51]

You miss the essential point. I'm not comparing Paisley and Mandela as people, heavens no! One can either love or loathe the memory of either as they so wish.

I was simply noting the fact that both men, who took extreme positions at the beginning, finally arrived at a peaceful settlement with their sworn enemies and, indeed, were crucial to that settlement.

One member in particular refuses to acknowledge Dr Paisley's widely-acknowledged contribution to the peace settlement in N. Ireland purely on the grounds of his sincere religious beliefs, which I do not altogether share, either.

I consider that position to be unfair and indeed grossly illiberal and discriminatory ... don't you?

Would you care to share how/why you believe that Mandela took up an extreme position initially? He was representing the injustices done by the white minority to the Black Majority eapartheid. Paisely was seeking to sustain the dominant position, widely documented in access to housing, access to employment, treatment by the police, etc., of the Protestant majority against the Catholic minortity in Northern Ireland. Paisley was seeking to maintain the status quo, Mandela to overturn it.

I have indicated earlier why I believe that Paisley's dramatic volte-face was generated by hubris as much as by Christian kindness

[MrGongGong]

Here's a posting that is being discussed elsewhere

Ian Paisley was a bigoted, right wing, rabble-rousing shit of the first order. So why was he so fascinating….?

[P. G. Tipps]

According to #48 ...

Originally Posted by P. G. Tipps:

It isn't clear what parts of my previous posting you are referring to here but I'm talking about laws that apply in England, Wales and Scotland but as yet not in Northern Ireland largely because of the dead hand of Paisley Snr & Jnr. In my country we call this a legal anomaly and I hope it is one that is resolved soon.

I'm not aware that I, P. G. Tipps, posted anything of the kind but let's leave that to one side.

The original post on the subject referred to 'rights' and I simply pointed out that according to the European Court of Human Rights ... of which the UK including N.I. are part ... the 'rights' in what I can only surmise the poster was referring to simply do not exist, in either basic human or legal terms in N.I.. Of course, individual states can introduce their own laws to create a national 'right'. In accordance with this the people of N.I. are at liberty to judge whether to follow the rest of the UK or not. It is not a matter for unwarranted and bullying interference from outsiders and is solely a matter for the society concerned, in this case N.I.

I'm further not aware that myself ... or indeed a former member called 'scottycelt' or our current valued member Beef Oven ... ever raised the Great Obsession on this thread but I certainly found the need to challenge a statement that was wholly and demonstrably false!

Can we now move back from the Great Obsession to the original subject of Dr Paisley if there are those, unlike myself, who might wish to contribute any further ... ?

[MrGongGong]

Dr Paisley

Can you drop the Dr nonsense ?
Even though it was given to him by a supposedly "accredited" institution
it really is an insult to those folks who have earned it OR been awarded it for doing something positive in the world

Yours hopefully

Lord Gong of Stilton, OBE, CBE, DOREMI

[jean]

I'm not aware that I, P. G. Tipps, posted anything of the kind...

Ams's #48 is badly edited - worth a re-edit?

[ahinton]

Sometimes one doesn't know whether to laugh or cry at such a clearly contradictory and illogical statement.

The statement concerned was
"He became chums with his enemies
but remained a bigot to the end".

Have you truly never encountered examples of people who cynically court people of their convenient choice, erstwhile enemies or otherwise, without actually scarificing their own negative qualities such as the bigotry rightly ascribed to Paisley? Is duplicity somehow a foreign concept to you?

[ahinton]

I have indicated earlier why I believe that Paisley's dramatic volte-face was generated by hubris as much as by Christian kindness

Indeed, but in so doing I think you were being far too kind. I am not a Christian but, having encountered true Christian kindness, I have to say that it seems to me to be light years from anything that ever manifested itself in Paisley's conduct; Christian kindness and the kind of cynical manipulation that became Paisley's habit in later life are as uneasy bedfellows as are likely to be found anywhere.

[visualnickmos]

Have you truly never encountered examples of people who cynically court people of their convenient choice, erstwhile enemies or otherwise, without actually scarificing their own negative qualities such as the bigotry rightly ascribed to Paisley? Is duplicity somehow a foreign concept to you?

Very well put.

[MrGongGong]

Indeed, but in so doing I think you were being far too kind. I am not a Christian but, having encountered true Christian kindness, I have to say that it seems to me to be light years from anything that ever manifested itself in Paisley's conduct; Christian kindness and the kind of cynical manipulation that became Paisley's habit in later life are as uneasy bedfellows as are likely to be found anywhere.

Well put

Fake Doctor
Fake "Christian"

[P. G. Tipps]

Well put

Fake Doctor
Fake "Christian"

And, needless to say, all fake points.

Here's the former enemies who knew Dr Paisley better than any of us ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/northernireland/11093656/Martin-McGuinness-fights-back-tears-during-Dr-Ian-Paisley-tribute.html

[MrGongGong]

And, needless to say, all fake points.

Here's the former enemies who knew Dr Paisley better than any of us ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...y-tribute.html

DR DR DR DR ????

Why on earth do you insist on using that title ?

Put simply he wasn't a "Christian"
The REAL followers of Christ don't spread hate and misery
he was a fraud, a fake
and is now dead, which probably advances the cause of peace more than anything he did in his angry, bigoted life

A good friend of mine was arrested in the 1970's for getting a bullseye on his head with an egg at a protest.
The world would have been a better place without him OR mr McGuinness

[amateur51]

Ams's #48 is badly edited - worth a re-edit?

You're right jean i'm struggling with a poor connection at the moment which means i keep losing things. However i'm too tired after a busy day to re-edit. Bear with me & I hope to have it done tomorrow.