Yes or No and no bullsh*t

[Serial_Apologist]

I don't doubt the truth of what you say.
to take things back to a more prosaic level, we live in a world where identity is highly valued, for better , or probably worse.

Identifying with things, ( politics, fashion, class,nationality, football team, academic achievement etc etc etc) is probably, for many of us difficult to avoid.
Do the problems not start to multiply quickly when we use these things in an attempt to achieve a feeling of self worth?

Yes, ts, absolutely!! Identity is a combination of others' normative self-assessments filtered through the limitations of description, (because we understand ourselves in terms of language, and language categorises), first acquired through family, to be perpetuated by peer group pressure, and then projected onto others to perpetuate. As I understand all this, it constitutes (and is constituted by, as Sartre might say) our singular way, as a species, of relating, and thereby acquiring the credentials for belonging, which in turn involves those values which express the given order of the day, and implicates us all in the ways in which some people acquire authority, which in the end is accordant with social order, and which can therefore vary from one kind of society to another. Other species appear to avoid these "intermediaries" - these rules for learning we seem lumbered with by virtue of having the power to conceptualise and fix - though observers are minded to notice comparable behaviour patterns in other higher species.

How these values are formed and maintained is one thing; how they occur, and the very fact that they do, and instill themselves into "the depths of our being", should be run in conjunction with questioning the kind of society we live in, as a prelude to bringing about the change in society we have prepared ourselves for. As RD Laing noted in "Self and Others", way back in 1964, it's sad that some people only reach this sort of recognition on retirement, when pressures associated with belonging are only revealed in their removal for the simple reason that one no longer has to cheat oneself into a job, or even a close relationship, having for half a lifetime half-deceived oneself into forgetting that one is cheating, so profoundly has one internalised the pretense. I've long believed all this stuff - to me it's indispensable to sorting oneself out so one can end up psychologically relatively at peace with oneself, though putting it all into practice is of course another matter - and that often calls for more tact than I profess to possess!

[ahinton]

Pickard

Ah, yes, the composer based

in the midst of our fair city.

[MrGongGong]

I've worked in a busy retail environment all over the North of England for many years,

Psssssst anyone want to buy a watch ?
Or even

I'll have a 99 and a choc ice ?

[P. G. Tipps]

Psssssst anyone want to buy a watch ?
Or even

I'll have a 99 and a choc ice ?

Insufferable snob.

Beats whacking bits of metal together for a living ... <laugh>

[MrGongGong]

Insufferable snob.

Beats whacking bits of metal together for a living ... <laugh>

I don't think you got the reference to the other MrP :JOKE:

But what exactly IS a "busy retail environment" ?

[french frank]

Ah, yes, the composer based

Indeed - and a very good lecturer too. I presume his ancestors came over from Picardy at about the same time as mine came from Brittany ...

[Beef Oven!]

But what exactly IS a "busy retail environment" ?

Post-industrial/manufacturing Britain.

[P. G. Tipps]

I don't think you got the reference to the other MrP :JOKE:

But what exactly IS a "busy retail environment" ?

The 'other MrP' ... ? ... you are getting even more mysterious than amateur51!

As to your other question I suggest you enter, say, a Tesco supermarket and ask a member of staff for an authoritative definition.

Better still, apply for a temporary job in the John Lewis toy department at Xmas!

[mercia]

What's the betting Salmond will swim for cover leaving Sturgeon in the shallows...

I think it will be brill if Sturgeon is the next leader - I hope she doesn't flounder but achieves first plaice.

[Serial_Apologist]

I think it will be brill if Sturgeon is the next leader - I hope she doesn't flounder but achieves first plaice.

She comes over on TV as effishent

[visualnickmos]

She comes over on TV as effishent

Lots of carping, let's not be coy about it.

[ahinton]

Indeed - and a very good lecturer too. I presume his ancestors came over from Picardy at about the same time as mine came from Brittany ...

I didn't realised that you had Breton ancestry!

There must be a tierce de Picardie somewhere in his work...

[ahinton]

Lots of carping, let's not be coy about it.

In interview, she'll probably say that she haddock all to do it so didn't even need to mullet over. I'm sure that she'll go down especially well in Musselburgh and Pollokshields but doubt that she'd make any impression elsewhere in UK, such as Burnard's head, for example. Given that UK will never be the same again following the referendum, she'll often find herself skating on thin ice and if she eventually finds that it's all getting too much for her she might have to go consult a shrimp.

[P. G. Tipps]

Of course the 'fishy' references have been doing the rounds for at least a decade in Scotland but, in the cause of UK unity and mutual understanding, it is gratifying to see southern members now enjoying them as well, though, I have to say, one or two of ahinton's extra offerings might be stretching things a bit further than the length of your average conger eel ...

Back on topic it was good to see Mr Gordon Brown back on form and give the speech of his life on Wednesday in defence of our beloved Union. Even I am too young to recollect Sir Winston Churchill's (then plain 'Mr') famous speech informing the wartime world that 'we shall fight them on the beaches' etc etc, but I suspect that Mr Brown's effort was also right up there with the fighting best in politics.

I have absolutely nothing against Mr Alistair Darling who, as politicians go, is a thoroughly decent and likeable laddie, and who took a lot of unfair flak following the second TV debate with Mr Alex Salmond, but one does have to wonder whether the 'Better Together' margin of victory in the referendum might have been even greater with the somewhat more aggressive leadership of the 'Great Clunking Fist'?

Not that I would ever claim to be the only one to have pondered such a scenario, good heavens no ... but one does continue to ponder.

For those who missed Mr Brown's rallying cry, and who have absolutely no objection to members (even those with whom they are always so determined to disagree) simply providing a link to support the accuracy of a point previously made, here is a chance to witness the already famous speech once again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J39bBV7CBJk

[MrGongGong]

Red Herring?

I thought it was interesting that they called their "offer" a "VOW"

What's wrong with the usual "pledge"

pledge/plɛdʒ/
noun
a solemn promise or undertaking that will be discarded at the first opportunity
a thing that is given as security for the fulfilment of a contract or the payment of a debt but the giver hopes will be forgotten in the future
the drinking of a person's health; a toast.

verb
commit (a person or organization) by a solemn promise but with no intention whatsoever of carrying it out.
give as security on a loan but as reliable as a chocolate fireguard.
drink to the health of, whilst hoping that your companion will get so pissed not to have noticed that you stole their wallet.

What's all this "Mr" stuffy Scotty ?
Gordon Brown (texture like sun) is a Jedi Knight and should be addressed as such
and "Mr" Darling is really a Rev
while Salmond is obviously a dyslexic fish