Yes or No and no bullsh*t

[P. G. Tipps]

No.

[ahinton]

No.

No it couldn't get more futile? - or just plain No as in opposition to Scottish "independence"? (I suspect that I can guess)...

[johnb]

I suspect that Salmond's comparative silence on the currency issue (and, to be fair, he's not been entirely silent on this issue even if what he's had to say does nothing to reduce the confusion and uncertainty) is down to the fact that he either (a) doesn't know what to do - pace Obama in a different context - but, unlike Obama, tries to avoid admitting to that or (b) knows that he simply doesn't have the clout to determine which way a post-"independence" Scotland should go on it.

That might be correct but I also believe that Salmond is determined to obfuscate on the issue because a major part of his campaign is to portray independence as a form of devo-max: everything will stay the same, but better, for ordinary people - keep the pound, keep the Queen, keep the BBC. Do nothing to frighten the voters.

I've just stated elsewhere that, if news of an alleged move towards "Yes" can damage the value of the British pound as much as it has done in the past few hours and if were that to continue in like vein, Salmond might in any case end up being relieved that Westminster rebuffed his desire for a post-"independence" currency union with UK on the grounds that the British pound wouldn't be worth having although, of course, that would remove one option from him once and for all.

I think that is a misreading of the situation. The pound is suffering at the moment because of the sudden realisation that independence is a definite possibility (and therefore the financial markets are considering in the potential risks). However, whatever buffeting the pound will have if the Yes campaign wins would be a walk in the park compared to what a new formed independent Scottish currency would have to endure.

[ahinton]

The pound is suffering at the moment because of the sudden realisation that independence is a definite possibility (and therefore the financial markets are considering in the potential risks). However, whatever buffeting the pound will have if the Yes campaign wins would be a walk in the park compared to what a new formed independent Scottish currency would have to endure.

That's as maybe but, until we discover whether Scotland will either desire or be forced to adopt its own currency or whether it will be able to join the Eurozone if so it wishes, the entire currency argument remains open.

[P. G. Tipps]

- keep the pound, keep the Queen, keep the BBC. Do nothing to frighten the voters.

The way things are going the last one may well do the opposite ... (whistle).

More seriously even those with senior EU experience appear to be joining in the chaos ...

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/independent-scotland-could-join-eu-in-18-months-1-3535302

[MrGongGong]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/queen-would-be-interested-in-scotland-if-it-was-a-horse-2014091090398

[Stillhomewardbound]

Is it not totally bizarre how Gordon Brown just appeared out of the wood work the other day. I was thinking to myself, 'Oh NO, he thinks he's still PM!'

Enter Matron: 'Alright now, Mr.Brown, let's get you back in bed. No dear, you're not Prime Minister anymore. Not that you did much about Scotland when you were, dear'.

I actually think Scotland would be making a huge mistake in bowing out of the Union but you can understand their sense of frustration when Westminster almost entirely ignores the debate that has been going on until suddenly at the 11th hour and 59th minute Cameron, Clegg and Milliband are haring up there in a massive panic like negligent husbands who never ever believed their wives would actually leave them as they'd constantly threatened.

[ahinton]

Is it not totally bizarre how Gordon Brown just appeared out of the wood work the other day. I was thinking to myself, 'Oh NO, he thinks he's still PM!'

Enter Matron: 'Alright now, Mr.Brown, let's get you back in bed. No dear, you're not Prime Minister anymore. Not that you did much about Scotland when you were, dear'.

I actually think Scotland would be making a huge mistake in bowing out of the Union but you can understand their sense of frustration when Westminster almost entirely ignores the debate that has been going on until suddenly at the 11th hour and 59th minute Cameron, Clegg and Milliband are haring up there in a massive panic like negligent husbands who never ever believed their wives would actually leave them as they'd constantly threatened.

It's worse than merely bizarre, methinks. Where Westmonster's gone wrong on this, however, is not ensuring that, having bestowed upon the Scottish authorities the right to conduct a referendum on Scottish independence, it has made due effort to clarify the all the pertinent conditions, parameters et al associated with such possible independence in order that the electorate in Scotland would be able to have as precise as possible an understanding from the outset as to what they'd be entitled to vote for and against.

[amateur51]

It's worse than merely bizarre, methinks. Where Westmonser's gone wrong on this, however, is not ensuring that, having bestowed upon the Scottish authorities the right to conduct a referendum on Scottish independence, it has made due effort to clarify the all the pertinent conditions, parameters et al associated with such possible independence in order that the electorate in Scotland would be able to have as precise as possible an understanding from the outset as to what they'd be entitled to vote for and against.

According to Sir Jeremy Heywood, Cabinet Secretary and Head of the Civil Service, on Today programme yesterday, Cameron had told him explicitly not to look into such clarifications.Presumably this is becausae Cameron wanted to create an aura of massive uncertainty around voting 'Yes'?

I've puzzled too over why citizens of voting age in England, Wales & Northern Ireland have not been allowed to take part in this referendum.After all it affects our lives too. And then it struck me - perhaps Cameron hasn't wanted to offer a multio-electorate referendum because one of his bolshier Euro-sceptic MPs or even Mr Farage might have said "Oh well if you're having a UK-wide referendum on Scotland, why not have a referendum on UK, or what's left of it, leaving the EU, thus saving a lot of money?!"

Just a thought :smileythingowotsit:

[ahinton]

According to Sir Jeremy Heywood, Cabinet Secretary and Head of the Civil Service, on Today programme yesterday, Cameron had told him explicitly not to look into such clarifications.Presumably this is becausae Cameron wanted to create an aura of massive uncertainty around voting 'Yes'?

In so doing, he is making a mockery of the referendum whichever way it goes, methinks.

I've puzzled too over why citizens of voting age in England, Wales & Northern Ireland have not been allowed to take part in this referendum.After all it affects our lives too.

Indeed; after all, it's likely to affect them more than any other citizens of EU or elsewhere although, of couse, those entitled to vote in the referendum are aged 16 and upwards whereas only those of 18 and upwards may vote in elections in UK's other three member states.

And then it struck me - perhaps Cameron hasn't wanted to offer a multio-electorate referendum because one of his bolshier Euro-sceptic MPs or even Mr Farage might have said "Oh well if you're having a UK-wide referendum on Scotland, why not have a referendum on UK, or what's left of it, leaving the EU, thus saving a lot of money?!"

Much as Cameron & Co. would likely welcome with open arms anything that would save money, I don't agree with this, since Cameron's already offered such a referendum in around 2017 although, of course, members of the Scottish electorate won't be entitled to participate in it if Scotland opts for "independence" next week.

[amateur51]

Much as Cameron & Co. would likely welcome with open arms anything that would save money, I don't agree with this, since Cameron's already offered such a referendum in around 2017 although, of course, members of the Scottish electorate won't be entitled to participate in it if Scotland opts for "independence" next week.

My point is that the Euro-sceptics want a referendum on leaving EU before 2017 - that's why the previously loyal Carswell bunked off to UKIP, he didn't believe Cameron's line on 2017.. Knowing this and wishing to avoid raising the spectre at all costs, Cameron may have calculated that by proceeding without a UK-wide referendum on Scotland, he effectively de-fused this possibility.

[ahinton]

My point is that the Euro-sceptics want a referendum on leaving EU before 2017 - that's why the previously loyal Carswell bunked off to UKIP, he didn't believe Cameron's line on 2017.. Knowing this and wishing to avoid raising the spectre at all costs, Cameron may have calculated that by proceeding without a UK-wide referendum on Scotland, he effectively de-fused this possibility.

Whatever Carswell may have believed or believes now, Cameron has pledged an in-out EU referendum and, after all, there's no way that one is likely to be held much sooner than that under any circumstances, even were UKIP to form the next UK government (!) following next May's General Election.

[amateur51]

Whatever Carswell may have believed or believes now, Cameron has pledged an in-out EU referendum and, after all, there's no way that one is likely to be held much sooner than that under any circumstances, even were UKIP to form the next UK government (!) following next May's General Election.

Lordy you've done it again, picked up the wrong end of the stick & waved it about your head in triumph :thinnedlips:

I give up!

[ahinton]

Lordy you've done it again, picked up the wrong end of the stick & waved it about your head in triumph

If indeed I have, I must ask you what the correct end of it is! You wrote
My point is that the Euro-sceptics want a referendum on leaving EU before 2017
and, whilst I don't doubt this, there's simply no way that they're giong to get it, whichever party they belong to and whichever one's in government now or after the next General Election.
By the way, I'm not a "Lordy" although, if I were, I'd apprently be entitled to vote in the referndum even though I don't live in Scotland; I wonder whether Lords Lloyd Webber and Berkeley will vote and, if so, which way?...

I give up!

Oh, please don't ever do that!

[amateur51]

[QUOTE=ahinton;427971]

Lordy you've done it again, picked up the wrong end of the stick & waved it about your head in triumphquote]
If indeed I have, I must ask you what the correct end of it is! You wrote
My point is that the Euro-sceptics want a referendum on leaving EU before 2017
and, whilst I don't doubt this, there's simply no way that they're giong to get it, whichever party they belong to and whichever one's in government now or after the next General Election.
By the way, I'm not a "Lordy" although, if I were, I'd apprently be entitled to vote in the referndum even though I don't live in Scotland; I wonder whether Lords Lloyd Webber and Berkeley will vote and, if so, which way?...


Oh, please don't ever do that!

And, once again, my point is still that should Cameron have decided to give all the eligible citizens of UK a vote in a referendum on Scotland's leaving the UK, a bright spark of a Euro-sceptic Tory might have agitated for an additional question to be posed about UK staying in/leaving the EU. It might not have worked but it would most certainly have caused trouble & strife for Cameron in his current relationship with his Euro-sceptic back-benchers - and so, in my fantasy, he decided to close off that possibility.

The Tory Eurosceptics wanted to have this referendum yesterday; 2017 is another attempt, in their eyes, by Cameron to kick the issue into the long grass, and as such is to be thwarted at every possible opportunity.