This is not how justice is applied.

[P. G. Tipps]

Well, it was by simple reason of questioning your questioning of the idea that a single alleged offense in any category should be enough to warrant police enquiry.

A police 'enquiry', of course. However, if one solitary individual accuses another of an offence, any police enquiry has to examine any evidence and I understood from your comments that, even lacking supporting evidence of a crime, you still would be in favour of the authorities taking the alleged offender to court in order to prove his/her innocence? I accept that is not what you meant!

Getting back to the main point, I assume we are all in agreement that the joint Police/BBC action in providing the viewing public with a filmed account of a raid on a currently innocent man's property whilst he was on holiday and completely unaware of what was going on, is deeply disturbing to anyone who believes in an individual's basic rights regarding his/her own property?

Even rich celebrities have rights!

[vinteuil]

... but the BBC is always right.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28886012

So that's all OK then. Move along, nothing to see here....

[Serial_Apologist]

... but the BBC is always right.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28886012

So that's all OK then. Move along, nothing to see here....

The BBC's much-vaunted editorial independence overrides anyone apart from itself knowing about it's editorial decision-making, then. It doesn't exactly raise hopes for greater transparency under Hall then does it.

[Dave2002]

... but the BBC is always right.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28886012

So that's all OK then. Move along, nothing to see here....

And this is how it reports its own news

In a separate statement issued after the search of Sir Cliff's home, the BBC said the matter had been reported in a "fair and impartial manner".

[amateur51]

Well the DG and of BBC and the top copper at South Yorks police are due before the HoC Public Affairs Select Committee in early September.

[Petrushka]

Well the DG and of BBC and the top copper at South Yorks police are due before the HoC Public Affairs Select Committee in early September.

Let's hope they are given a roasting.

[Flosshilde]

Well, it was by simple reason of questioning your questioning of the idea that a single alleged offense in any category should be enough to warrant police enquiry.

I find Scotty's views on how 'alleged' offences should be dealt with curious (but entirely consistent with his response to the ex-Cardinal O'Brien's troubles); if 'alleged' offences shouldn't be investigated then the police would be rather short of work, since unless it's investigated and goes to trial all offences are 'alleged'.

[P. G. Tipps]

As I can find no evidence that anyone called 'Scotty' has contributed to this thread I can only guess that the member is referring to myself.

Needless to say, I didn't at any time post that a claim of sexual assault 'shouldn't be investigated', I simply challenged the apparent statement that an accused should be taken to court and tried on the basis of one single allegation of an 'historic' nature which is well nigh impossible to substantiate.

That is precisely why the police have publicly stated in the past that they need to see 'a pattern' of similar allegations before they are able to progress with their enquiries and have enough to go on for the matter to end up in court. Of course, the police should take every case seriously but the rights of the accused must be protected as well, as they are still deemed innocent in law. I think the huge majority of members who are interested enough to read this thread will easily understand that very simple point.

Finally, I have had some experience with how difficult it can be for the police in such matters. I have a friend whose marriage broke-up and who then embarked on what proved to be an ill-advised relationship with a woman he met shortly afterwards. He was told by this woman that a man she used to see had 'raped' her. My friend naturally urged her to go to the police and offered to go with her but she said she had already done that. Weeks later my friend started to get unpleasant phone-calls from a man claiming he (my friend) had 'raped' his girlfriend. Without going into unnecessary further detail it turned out that this woman had been seeing both men at the same time and telling one boyfriend that the other one had 'raped' her! Naturally, both men ended the relationship immediately.

However, the main point of this thread is surely the unwarranted and completely OTT behaviour of the police and the BBC in the case of Sir Cliff, and I'm not surprised representatives of both have been summoned/invited to appear before a parliamentary committee, though I suspect it won't reveal very much more than defensive hot air from the interviewees and the usual rude questioning and feigned outrage from committee members!

[Dave2002]

As I can find no evidence that anyone called 'Scotty' has contributed to this thread I can only guess that the member is referring to myself.

Maybe you are, maybe not. Perhaps we can't claim our £5. There used to be a contributor with a neanderthal like avatar, so perhaps the chimpanzee avatar has suggested a Planet of the Apes connection.

Best wishes, whoever you are!

[P. G. Tipps]

Maybe you are, maybe not. Perhaps we can't claim our £5. There used to be a contributor with a neanderthal like avatar, so perhaps the chimpanzee avatar has suggested a Planet of the Apes connection.

Best wishes, whoever you are!

Thank you, Dave2002, that is very sweet of you, and best wishes to you, too!

Whatever one likes to call the planet I inhabit it is quite obviously a very different one from that of some here? :-)

[Flosshilde]

Maybe you are, maybe not. Perhaps we can't claim our £5.

Style, a liking for Bruckner (http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...080#post413080), lives in Manchester & travels to Glasgow frequently (see rail privatisation thread)

[P. G. Tipps]

Style, a liking for Bruckner ...

Surely those two admirable attributes invariably go together and are simply indicative of exemplary taste and judgement ... ?

... lives in Manchester & travels to Glasgow frequently (see rail privatisation thread)

I live in Manchester ... ?

Well, well, well ... how true is the old saying that 'we live and we learn', Flosshilde!

I do travel to the Dear Green Place quite a lot along with hundreds of thousands of others annually (preferably not at the same time, I hasten to add). The true Second City of the Empire (eat your heart out, Birmingham!) has much to offer the admiring tourist with its magnificent and imposing Victorian buildings, many lovely parks and gardens, and world-class venues in both art and sport. Its comparatively recent reputation as a prime entertainments city with many fine pubs, clubs and restaurants has only added to its already well-established tourist appeal. Furthermore the natives are exceedingly friendly(sometimes, it has to be said, rather excessively so) and even the sun itself has been known to bless the great city with its pleasantly-warming presence!

Oh, Flosshilde, how I could go on ... and on ... but we digress!

[amateur51]

I wonder how much South Yorkshire Police's investigating zeal when searching Sir Cliff Richard's home recently was informed by their knowing that any day now their 'form' on investigating child sexual abuse in Rotherham was to be revealed.