Anyone else done an Archbishop ?

[french frank]

No generation should be hidebound by the moral principles of an earlier age: it must discover its own.

And this is surely the responsibility of each generation. Similarly, it isn't right to judge the past by the moral principles of the present, principles that they didn't dream of.

[Serial_Apologist]

Could someone give me an example where the UK has "safeguards" that work ?
This is ALWAYS brushed aside
but IMV is the key issue

The fact that we all get there in the end should ensure that safeguards work.

[MrGongGong]

The safeguards will work in this instance. because eventually, as I wrote earlier, we are all in this one together, and in no position to palm it off onto vulnerability or otherwise.

I don't think so at all
Given the complete lack of empathy that many in our society have for the most vulnerable I can't see that this will be any different
look how "safeguards" have worked to protect people in the past ?

[Petrushka]

I don't think so at all
Given the complete lack of empathy that many in our society have for the most vulnerable I can't see that this will be any different
look how "safeguards" have worked to protect people in the past ?

It isn't often I agree with Mr GG but here I do, 100%.

[P. G. Tipps]

indeed
It's a shame that this subject is always hijacked by those of a "religious persuasion"
I spy a serious conflation

And it's an even greater shame that some members are so blind that they cannot (or simply refuse to) see the connection. Let's leave mention of reliigion out of this discussion which is simply a ploy by some to conveniently evade certain issues..

In the late Sixties when I was a teenager my father predicted that David Steel's Abortion Bill would inevitably lead to euthanasia calls further down the line. I thought he was mad. I laughed in his face. That could NEVER happen in this country, could it?

There were plenty of others who feared the same and were assured at the time that it could and would never happen. Well it now has ...

It's really that simple. And it doesn't take a degree in logic for someone to work out that things are unlikely to stop here. One can easily see a future where anyone of 'sound mind' who requests a doctor to help kill him/her with a lethal drug will have the legal right to do so.

After all, it is 'their own body', isn't it, and no business of others to interfere into their own 'freedom of choice'?

In other words exactly the same argument!

[MrGongGong]

Actually this has nothing to do with Abortion at all and I think you are conflating two entirely separate things.

[P. G. Tipps]

Actually this has nothing to do with Abortion at all and I think you are conflating two entirely separate things.

There are none so blind ...

[french frank]

One can easily see a future where anyone of 'sound mind' who requests a doctor to help kill him/her with a lethal drug will have the legal right to do so.

After all, it is 'their own body', isn't it, and no business of others to interfere into their own 'freedom of choice'?

Can one also 'easily see' the circumstances in which someone of 'sound mind' would 'demand' that a doctor assist in his/her suicide? One can probably 'easily see' the possible circumstances in which a woman might 'demand' an abortion - in many of which men are either criminal or, at least, equally responsible for an unwanted pregnancy but find it rather easier to escape the consequences.

[P. G. Tipps]

Can one also 'easily see' the circumstances in which someone of 'sound mind' would 'demand' that a doctor assist in his/her suicide? One can probably 'easily see' the possible circumstances in which a woman might 'demand' an abortion - in many of which men are either criminal or, at least, equally responsible for an unwanted pregnancy but find it rather easier to escape the consequences.

Well of course that is a separate issue, and quite obviously not best discussed here!

One could equally argue that a woman might drive a man to consider taking his own life or vice-versa for that matter. We are not talking here about apportioning blame for a suicidal person's condition but the value society puts on that person's life.

Though it might not seem like it, I suspect Mr GongGong and myself are probably not very far apart on the issue at least when it comes to legalised assisted suicide. It's simply that some see a clear connection with previous laws and others obviously don't!

[Flosshilde]

Could someone give me an example where the UK has "safeguards" that work ?
This is ALWAYS brushed aside
but IMV is the key issue

As I said up-thread, it would be useful to look at the experience of those places where assisted dying is allowed - doe their safeguards work? Are there examples of people being helped to die who do not wish to?

In what circumstances do you think the safeguards wouldn't work?

[jean]

One can easily see a future where anyone of 'sound mind' who requests a doctor to help kill him/her with a lethal drug will have the legal right to do so.

A person of sound mind (or not) already has the right to take their own life without it being considered a crime, as it used to be.

If they tried and failed, they could be prosecuted. The right of others to interfere with their 'freedom of choice' has quietly gone, and you didn't even notice.

Before the Suicide Act 1961, it was a crime to commit suicide, and anyone who attempted and failed could be prosecuted and imprisoned, while the families of those who succeeded could also potentially be prosecuted. In part, that criminalization reflected religious and moral objections to suicide as self-murder.

Isn't that another example of your slippery slope?

What did your supremely prescient father have to say about it back in 1961?

.

[jean]

Are there examples of people being helped to die who do not wish to?

I suppose the argument is that those those who felt the obligation to remove themselves from being a burden would conceal the fact so cleverly that you'd never find out.

[Flosshilde]

A person of sound mind (or not) already has the right to take their own life without it being

However, if they are not of sound body they may need someone to help them.

[amateur51]

There are none so blind ...

Visual impairment has nothing to do with the case in point.

[amateur51]

Well of course that is a separate issue, and quite obviously not best discussed here!

One could equally argue that a woman might drive a man to consider taking his own life or vice-versa for that matter. We are not talking here about apportioning blame for a suicidal person's condition but the value society puts on that person's life.

Though it might not seem like it, I suspect Mr GongGong and myself are probably not very far apart on the issue at least when it comes to legalised assisted suicide. It's simply that some see a clear connection with previous laws and others obviously don't!

Apart from your coming to terms with your initial fracas with your father's concerns over abortion legislation (congratulations by the way) what point are you trying to make here?