Gaza

[amateur51]

Time for sanctions to be applied to Israel to bring them to the negotiating table with the two-state solution at the forefront of the negotiators' minds on both sides.

[kea]

Cutting off the exorbitant amounts of aid Israel receives from the USA would do just as well... and be just as likely to happen. (ie not very)

The only country that could possibly put pressure on the USA (China) seems to be mostly looking out for its own interests, which the lives of a bunch of Palestinians halfway around the world don't have much to do with. So, realistically, we're looking at this sort of thing happening every five years or so, until the situation either develops into all-out war or the state of Israel is overthrown.

Of course we can hope for regime change in Jerusalem, or Washington... which I am... but it hasn't seemed to change much in the last 30 years, and all evidence shows that the tide is shifting towards rather than away from extremism.

[amateur51]

Cutting off the exorbitant amounts of aid Israel receives from the USA would do just as well... and be just as likely to happen. (ie not very)

The only country that could possibly put pressure on the USA (China) seems to be mostly looking out for its own interests, which the lives of a bunch of Palestinians halfway around the world don't have much to do with. So, realistically, we're looking at this sort of thing happening every five years or so, until the situation either develops into all-out war or the state of Israel is overthrown.

Of course we can hope for regime change in Jerusalem, or Washington... which I am... but it hasn't seemed to change much in the last 30 years, and all evidence shows that the tide is shifting towards rather than away from extremism.

Politicians in USA feel the need to massage 'the Israel lobby' which is not the same set as 'the Jewish lobby'. Plenty of American Jewish voters are justfiably horrified at what Israel is up to in Gaza.

It is time for Obama to throw down the gauntlet to those who would restrict his negotiating manoevres with Israel and stand up for the oppressed people of Palestine.

[french frank]

Meanwhile, 6 Israeli soldiers are confirmed dead, and a 7th missing presumed dead.

"Mr Kerry said the US was concerned about Palestinian casualties, but lent his support to Israel's "appropriate and legitimate" military operation. "

Well done to be concerned about the 548 Palestinians killed (yesterday's figure) - most of them civilians.

[amateur51]

Meanwhile, 6 Israeli soldiers are confirmed dead, and a 7th missing presumed dead.

"Mr Kerry said the US was concerned about Palestinian casualties, but lent his support to Israel's "appropriate and legitimate" military operation. "

Well done to be concerned about the 548 Palestinians killed (yesterday's figure) - most of them civilians.

I look forward to the day when the US SoS says something like "I wonder for how long the ordinary people of Israel will support or at least put up with this shocking loss of life before they require their politicians to come to the negotating table in good faith. America awaits their signal with increasing exasperation"

[Ferretfancy]

I look forward to the day when the US SoS says something like "I wonder for how long the ordinary people of Israel will support or at least put up with this shocking loss of life before they require their politicians to come to the negotating table in good faith. America awaits their signal with increasing exasperation"

Yes, we forget that there are more moderate voices within Israel itself, but the complex electoral system that they have is a huge obstacle to progress. The fact is that numerous tiny ultra religious parties hold the balance in the Knesset, resulting in endless unsatisfactory coalitions and back room deals.

All the noise and thunder from Netanyahu and his gang has served for years to hide the historical facts of Israel's past injustices, beginning with the illegal establishment of the state itself.

This became clear to me when an Israeli friend who I like and respect stated that unless Israel dealt with the Palestinians, Isis would take over his country. This neatly makes the false case once again that this is a religious conflict, when in fact it has always been the territorial injustice that has lead the whole region into embracing extremist positions.

[aeolium]

One of the worst comments I have heard from any politician is that made by Netanyahu yesterday, that Hamas was seeking to use "telegenically dead" Palestinians for its cause - the victims perhaps queuing up for martyrdom in front of the cameras. It does seem that there is no limit to the depths people will plumb to justify their inhumanity.

The situation is completely hopeless and if anything is more likely to be changed by regime upheaval in the surrounding countries of the Middle East than any change of political support in the USA or Europe. I blame that otherwise utterly forgettable politician Balfour for promising to create a Jewish homeland in a country with an already settled population.

[MrGongGong]

One of the worst comments I have heard from any politician is that made by Netanyahu yesterday, that Hamas was seeking to use "telegenically dead" Palestinians for its cause - the victims perhaps queuing up for martyrdom in front of the cameras. It does seem that there is no limit to the depths people will plumb to justify their inhumanity.
.

I'll try again as it seems that swearing is more offensive than evil acts

what I meant to say was

Ev*l
F******
B******

[french frank]

Don't get me wrong (as we have to say if people might seize on something that wasn't intended): I think Twitter is an abomination and it's stupid in the extreme for people like MPs to utter public statements by tweeting them. But Labour called David Ward's tweet 'vile and irresponsible', the Tories called it 'appalling'

Acknowledging, as above, the irresponsible aspect, I found Ward's elaboration of his views entirely in accord with mine, vile and appalling though they may be:

" ... he said he condemned violence on both sides of the conflict, but had been seeking to understand the motives of those firing rockets at Israel.

"The question is why would they want to fire missiles when they know that the missiles will result in further Palestinian deaths, to a disproportionate level? Why are they doing it?" he said. [I think I posed a similar question up-thread]

"They are doing it because they are absolutely desperate and politicians in the West are failing them."

and

' "What I was saying was, if I was there, if I had been living for year after year after year, hemmed in by air, land and sea by a mighty military force that was brutally killing my people, and the world was not responding, I think I would have to do something." '

He said earlier that 'peace means Hamas not firing rockets'. It doesn't mean a cessation of the 'peaceful' war of mistreating and dispossessing the Palestinians.

[amateur51]

Don't get me wrong (as we have to say if people might seize on something that wasn't intended): I think Twitter is an abomination and it's stupid in the extreme for people like MPs to utter public statements by tweeting them. But Labour called David Ward's tweet 'vile and irresponsible', the Tories called it 'appalling'

Acknowledging, as above, the irresponsible aspect, I found Ward's elaboration of his views entirely in accord with mine, vile and appalling though they may be:

" ... he said he condemned violence on both sides of the conflict, but had been seeking to understand the motives of those firing rockets at Israel.

"The question is why would they want to fire missiles when they know that the missiles will result in further Palestinian deaths, to a disproportionate level? Why are they doing it?" he said. [I think I posed a similar question up-thread]

"They are doing it because they are absolutely desperate and politicians in the West are failing them."

and

' "What I was saying was, if I was there, if I had been living for year after year after year, hemmed in by air, land and sea by a mighty military force that was brutally killing my people, and the world was not responding, I think I would have to do something." '

He said earlier that 'peace means Hamas not firing rockets'. It doesn't mean a cessation of the 'peaceful' war of mistreating and dispossessing the Palestinians.

Well said Mr Ward and you both, french frank.

[MrGongGong]

Well said Mr Ward and you both, french frank.

Spot on IMV

[Ferretfancy]

Spot on IMV

Agreed. As far as Israel is concerned, it's a case of 'We have got the Gatling gun, and they have not"

[amateur51]

Some of these photographs are disturbing, but rightly so ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28497439

And all Mark Regev can do is parrot in response .. "Israel has a right to defend itself"

For those with a stout constitution, listen to Melanie Phillips going over the top on The Moral Maze this week ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04b1v8q

[MrGongGong]

Every day i'm getting messages about this outrage on social media
and what are our government doing about it ?
It seems that Israel is allowed to commit war crimes, steal land and oppress at will

Evil f*****rs

And our government is too pathetic to say or do anything ?

[phoenix71]

Every day i'm getting messages about this outrage on social media
and what are our government doing about it ?
It seems that Israel is allowed to commit war crimes, steal land and oppress at will

Evil f*****rs

And our government is too pathetic to say or do anything ?

Such eloquence, MrGG. Such profound insight. Almost worthy of 'Angry of Tunbridge Wells'.

Shall we bring a little touch of reality to this discussion? So just exactly why all the hand-ringing?

So many in Gaza killed (do we have any evidence as to the accuracy of the claimed number by Hamas? No, thought not). So few Israelis killed. It's just not cricket, chaps.

I am guessing that you are too young to have been around when the V1's were landing in London. So you won't quite appreciate or understand the fear when that phut..phut..phut stops. Not knowing exactly where it is going to land. Or who it might be going to kill. So that's a pretty good reason to want it to stop.

The long-term solution is to resolve the differences with dialogue and discussion. Both sides are equally to blame in not resolving this. But in the meantime, those rockets are still falling. Over 100 a day.

So why are Hamas so dumb? If you were a six-stone weakling and having a dispute with your 6ft martial arts expert next-door neighbour over the location of the garden fence, you'd be pretty stupid if you kept going up to him and poking him in the eye with a sharp stick. He is a patient man but eventually that patience is going to where thin and he is going to strike back. Which is precisely what Israel has done.

But then you, Hamas, knew that so why not make maximum PR out of it? Why not maximise the body count by locating the rocket launchers next door to schools. Next door to a hospital. They could have located them down by the beach. But no, they chose to locate them where they did which seems pretty callous of Hamas in my book.

So before you start hammering those keys again, Mr Angry-of-Tunbridge-Wells, just pause and get a grip of yourself and think about the wider picture.