Scotland to charge for plastic bags

[MrGongGong]

Not the Green Party, please note.

sorry Jean
you are right about that :-)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

erm
no it's not
it's because people think that everything should be run as a money making business
and not all of us live in big cities

Ah, yes. The deregulation of buses. A failure which the other side did nothing to correct - a recurring theme.

[MrGongGong]

Ah, yes. The deregulation of buses. A failure which the other side did nothing to correct - a recurring theme.

Sadly true
How about a list of the Coalition's education policies that the Labour party plan to reverse :-(

[Anna]

I think the phrase "This small step will do little to tackle the nation's huge waste mountain and can't disguise the government's woeful green record" doesn't suggest the move is a 'distraction', though - the FoE spokeman said it was 'welcome' news. Their criticism now would presumably be that it hasn't been introduced by the UK government.

Exactly frenchie, and I must say having for once in my life ploughed through EU reports and Parliamentary papers since this thread started I am now perplexed because the Conservative 2010 Election Manifesto (yes, I’ve even now read that(!) – perhaps I should get a life?) said “Vote blue – go green” and two key points were: Working towards zero waste and introducing incentives for recycling. So why, as I mentioned above, did Conservative MEPs try and block the carrier bag scheme and then fritter away time introducing so many exemptions it’ll be unworkable. England really is falling behind the rest of the UK. (I don't include any LibDems in the above dillydallying)

However, I see Bristol :-) announced itself as the Green Capitol of the South West, was the first to introduce food waste collections in the UK (are they sure about that, I thought Wales did it first?) and recycle 50% of their waste.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Sadly true
How about a list of the Coalition's education policies that the Labour party plan to reverse :-(

I know. It's most distressing. The excuse is that the policies are "popular". It just shows that if you keep repeating the same lie, it becomes the truth.

[MrGongGong]

I know. It's most distressing. The excuse is that the policies are "popular". It just shows that if you keep repeating the same lie, it becomes the truth.

Bringing us all back to the smoked fish
aint Rondo's great :-)

[teamsaint]

I think the phrase "This small step will do little to tackle the nation's huge waste mountain and can't disguise the government's woeful green record" doesn't suggest the move is a 'distraction', though - the FoE spokeman said it was 'welcome' news. Their criticism now would presumably be that it hasn't been introduced by the UK government.

Well I agree that that would be their objection. But there is , to me , a very strong suggestion that they think that discussion of the issue, government foot-dragging (is that a thing?), and the fact of the rather modest gains that can be made are indicative of the FoE spokesperson's opinions about the possibility of the governments woeful record being disguised.

They don't sound thrilled skinny, at any rate.

[Flosshilde]

Their criticism now would presumably be that it hasn't been introduced by the UK government.

Presumably not, as there isn't a UK government where this matter is concerned (as demonstrated by the fact that the different countries constituting the UK have introduced their own legislation)

[Anna]

Presumably not, as there isn't a UK government where this matter is concerned (as demonstrated by the fact that the different countries constituting the UK have introduced their own legislation)

Flossie, what's the reaction in Scotland, have there been any major protests about introducing the bag charge later this year?

[jean]

But there is , to me , a very strong suggestion that they think that discussion of the issue, government foot-dragging (is that a thing?), and the fact of the rather modest gains that can be made are indicative of the FoE spokesperson's opinions about the possibility of the governments woeful record being disguised.

I can't quite make out from what you say there what you think the FoE spokesperson's views about the possibility of the governments woeful record being disguised actually are.

But since they themselves say that "This small step...can't disguise the government's woeful green record" why don't we just go with that?

[teamsaint]

I can't quite make out from what you say there what you think the FoE spokesperson's views about the possibility of the governments woeful record being disguised actually are.

But since they themselves say that "This small step...can't disguise the government's woeful green record" why don't we just go with that?

Well, spokespeople often have to be rather careful or guarded in what they say, don't they.No dount the FoE guy feels a responsibility to maintain civilised contact with government, or something similar.
We don't take all their statements as being the truth , the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So a degree interpretation is necessary.

I interpret this statement as saying that the government has done (possibly deliberately) a pretty terrible job of introducing this somewhat low level measure, and that this might well serve to disguise/deflect from other failings.

Seems clear enough to me. Does he sound happy about it to you?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I have come to the view that spokespersons are essentially puppets, paid to present the official line, however implausible.

[ahinton]

One problem with continuing to make plastic bags available, even if by charging for them, is that those who pay for them will continue to do nothing to make the kinds of environmental improvements that are supposedly the motivation for introducing such charges, thereby undermining the very point of the exercise. I maintain that the French have gotten it right about this; no charges that cost money to make and process, no plastic bags to cause environmental damage and, broadly speaking, no problem (other, perhaps, than for the manufacturers of plastic bags). The Scots and the French have often gotten on pretty well; might this be a case where the former could do itself a favour by learning from the latter rather than introducing these charges?

[jean]

Well, spokespeople often have to be rather careful or guarded in what they say, don't they. I interpret this statement as saying that the government has done (possibly deliberately) a pretty terrible job of introducing this somewhat low level measure, and that this might well serve to disguise/deflect from other failings.

But what they actually said is far less 'guarded and careful' than your paraphrase of it!

Far from saying that the government's limited actions 'might well serve to disguise/deflect from other failings', FoE point out that it is the government's intention to disguise their failings, but that they will not succeed.

Of course he isn't happy, in that he does not think this measure is enough. But he does not say, or imply, that it is therefore useless.

[jean]

I have come to the view that spokespersons are essentially puppets, paid to present the official line, however implausible.

What official line are you talking about?