Scotland to charge for plastic bags

[Dave2002]

[Plastic bags go in the Coop's bin for recycling. I think they make fleeces out of them (not the Coop - someone).]

I really don't know what they can do with plastic bags regarding recycling. I heard that only a few plastic bottles (maybe 15 or fewer) are needed to make a fleece, but they're probably a different kind of plastic from the bags.

Recycling is a strange business. We used to have separate boxes for glass, paper, food waste and one wheelie bin for general rubbish, and we could have green bags for garden waste. Now we have wheelie bins for refuse - as before, but also a green wheelie bin for recyclables, and one (or more) brown ones for garden waste. We still have the food box. The change was made fairly recently - in the last year. I queried whether it was really sensible - I suspected that the savings are economic, as the trucks have to make fewer journeys, and the workers may not have to work so many hours, but I'm still less sure about the environmental benefits. Allegedly the contents of the green bins are sorted manually (mostly) at depots, though again, allegedly, some automation is used. I know that some large scale recycling plants can sort a lot of different types of material - thus minimising the need for manual sorting, but I think this only works on a very large scale. Otherwise i still feel that having materials pre-sorted must save time and effort.

Even in Sweden, where there is seemingly a lot of recycling, and we had to sort batteries, glass etc. there could be problems. Sometimes observant onlookers could see a truck arrive, and then mix together all the material which had been carefully sorted by residents. Please forgive me for being somewhat cynical about whether recycling is as effective as some councils would claim. Personally I always sort the material, but a worry is that this could be just a con trick to make us think that our councils are being environmentally friendly, and that what happens once it goes off our premises is that it is not handled appropriately.

[Flosshilde]

it wont presumably apply to so many other unnecessary bags, from a myriad other stores.

Here is the press release. http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Rele...rsbags28062013

There's no mention of the policy applying to any specific retail sector. So your presumption is wrong.

I was conducting this mornings discussion on a mobile, whilst walking around a city between business appointments. i did that because I think that environmental issues are important.

but not important enough to be concerned about the environmental impact of mobile phone manufacture or mobile phone masts, or to use the lowest technology phone.

[Flosshilde]

I have written to several government ministers, prime ministers, MPs, and other relevant people over the years, and maybe get a result 50% of the time.

'Black spider' memos?

[teamsaint]

Here is the press release. http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Rele...rsbags28062013

There's no mention of the policy applying to any specific retail sector. So your presumption is wrong.




but not important enough to be concerned about the environmental impact of mobile phone manufacture or mobile phone masts, or to use the lowest technology phone.

well if there has to be compulsion, at least it is consistent, (sort of), so I am happy to be wrong about that.

as for your final point, are you suggesting that views on these matters should be confined to those who never use mobile phones, and who oppose mobile phone technology at every turn?

How on earth do you know how concerned I am about those matters?

really, that is a an unbelievable comment. I suggest that you learn to accept that other people have differing views, that may have some validity, instead of resorting to this kind of aggressive nonsense.

or keep dishing it out.
whatever.

[french frank]

I really don't know what they can do with plastic bags regarding recycling.

"Re-use bags and place the worn-out plastic bags in supermarket recycling points, as they are collected specifically for specialist plastic film recycling away from other waste streams."

http://www.wrap.org.uk/content/carrier-bags-reducing-their-use

Now, let's see: that's Wales, N. Ireland and now Scotland charging for carrier bags. So, that's the whole of the UK, then, isn't it? ...erm :-/

[teamsaint]

"Re-use bags and place the worn-out plastic bags in supermarket recycling points, as they are collected specifically for specialist plastic film recycling away from other waste streams."

http://www.wrap.org.uk/content/carrier-bags-reducing-their-use

Now, let's see: that's Wales, N. Ireland and now Scotland charging for carrier bags. So, that's the whole of the UK, then, isn't it? ...erm :-/

just to save anybody the bother, total weight of carrier bags supplied to consumers in 2012 was about 70k tonnes, or around 0.25% of total UK household waste.

General packaging was a little under 20% of total waste.

[Dave2002]

'Black spider' memos?

Nope. That's Charles' business - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_spider_memos

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

just to save anybody the bother, total weight of carrier bags supplied to consumers in 2012 was about 70k tonnes, or around 0.25% of total UK household waste.

General packaging was a little under 20% of total waste.

I think that's a bit like saying Marmite is more unhealthy than Coca Cola, because the former's salt content exceeds the latter's sugar content, even though the calculation takes no account of one being a concentrate, and the other a drink that is mainly water.

[teamsaint]

I think that's a bit like saying Marmite is more unhealthy than Coca Cola, because the former's salt content exceeds the latter's sugar content, even though the calculation takes no account of one being a concentrate, and the other a drink that is mainly water.

Its just a statistic.my point in posting it was to illustrate out the vast amount of general waste we generate each year. one might conclude that great gains might be obtained by focussing efforts in this area.

as I have said before, pollution, waste, litter are bad.

[jean]

If you can show that measures against one form of pollution, waste, litter actively militate against dealing with other forms, I'll concede that you have a point.

But I don't believe you have shown that.

[french frank]

Just to repeat what seems to me to be the definitive answer.

I'm bewildered by this thread. I even started a reply earlier, went out for a haircut, came back several pages later.

A simple proposition - that plastic bag consumption, and with it their unique contribution to litter, landfill and wasted resources (oil and gas, basically) can be drastically cut by a small charge - has been amply demonstrated in Wales. The charge benefits good causes, as Anna has pointed out.

There is no need for all this discussion.

Consumption of plastic shopping bags in Wales has plummeted. People use and re-use their "bags for life". What is to object to? Of course there are lots of other recycling issues, but because they're not all being addressed does not mean that none should be. This is one issue that can easily be addressed, to the benefit of all, its success clearly demonstrated in Wales.

Protesting is like [ALERT: another analogy!!!!] saying there's no point in contributing to the Donkey Sanctuary because there are hugely more important charities than that one which is piddling and unimportant.

The charge is a voluntary one because there are free alternatives. And why should everyone who takes their own bag pay ANYTHING for the bags of those who don't, in money and environmental damage?

[teamsaint]

A couple of points.
In theory ,governments can deal with lots of issues at once. In practice, governments have to choose priorities, and their choices weigh very heavily.

Also: I have no issue with shops charging for bags. But it should be a freelu made commercial decision. We have enough market distortions as it is, in my opinion.

Also: the "green credentials" issue is important. This issue is relatively easy to deal with, but if it gives an otherwise inactive government undeserved green credentials, it could actually be a negative.

[jean]

...their choices weigh very heavily...

What on earth does that mean?

Also: the "green credentials" issue is important. This issue is relatively easy to deal with, but if it gives an otherwise inactive government undeserved green credentials, it could actually be a negative.

Then it's up to all of us to keep up the pressure and make sure we aren't fooled by the 'green credentials' line.

[Flosshilde]

really, that is a an unbelievable comment. I suggest that you learn to accept that other people have differing views, that may have some validity, instead of resorting to this kind of aggressive nonsense.

Just challenging your 'green credentials'. You seem to be saying that charging for plastic carrier bags is a waste of time when there are more important things to be worried about, and therefore shouldn't be done. You seem to think that to do so is a con by governments, designed to distract attention and make people feel good about 'doing something' and lertting them off the hook of doing something about the more important environmental issues.

You've failed to demonstrate that people are distracted (despite being asked to by Jean and me), and also appear to claim that you haven't fallen for the governments' dastardly tricks, and you use your plastic shopping bags for other things, and you are more concerned about the important things (but still use a mobile phone, the environmental impact of which is quite considerable) & not trivial stuff like plastic bags.

You just sound very smug and self-satisfied, and as if you feel rather superior to those of us who can't raise our sights above the trivial issues.


If you think that's agressive, then

whatever

.

I'd say the same to you if you were sitting opposite me.

[MrGongGong]

We have enough market distortions as it is, in my opinion.
.

Spot on
once we have a UKIP government we can start sending children to work in factories again :wink:
all this red tape that is hindering business really has to go ...........