Click on the comments, too...
I found it not entirely devoid of common sense :whistle:
-
Click on the comments, too...
I found it not entirely devoid of common sense :whistle:"...the isle is full of noises,
Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."
-
I think digging out extreme examples such as these is a well-tried means of persuading us that everything's all right really.
But then I'm not a lady.
Read this instead:
-
You don't expect anything even-handed from highly politically-orientated papers like The Guardian and The Telegraph, do you Cali?Originally posted by Caliban View Post
Click on the comments, too...
I found it not entirely devoid of common sense :whistle:Comment
-
I've just been told that I've just exceeded my monthly freebies on this site (since when?!?) and that to continue I need to sign up for a free triall and thereafter it'll £4/month - no thank you.Originally posted by Caliban View Post
Click on the comments, too...
I found it not entirely devoid of common sense :whistle:
So I've only read the headline ... and it's completely misleading.I know plenty of men who can spot sexism at 20 paces.
Anti-women/women as second class citizens stuff is everywhere - just check out the ads on the escalators on London's underground.
I don't want to see women (or men) in their undies advertising furniture or anything else thank you. There was a piece on the today programme this moerning i think about the 20% difference between average women's wages & men's. It's not difficult to see the sexism that is indee d everywhere and this capacity is not affected by what you carry in your budgie-smugglers guys!Comment
-
Good to see Bea Campbell is still socking it to us.Originally posted by jean View Post
I'm not a lady either jean.
I wonder what the definition of a lady is ... I've always worked on the principle that a lady always carries a pastry fork in her handbag and when she farts it smells of parma violets - you don't see many of those around.Comment
-
I only arseked....Originally posted by Beef Oven! View Post
Didn't know you could clock up a limit and then have to pay, ammy, sorry... Text copied below
... by Natasha Devon
The other day a male friend met me for dinner looking pale about the gills and generally discombobulated. It transpired that, during his Tube journey, he'd been what can only be described as 'set upon' by a group of inebriated women who were on a hen night. As they shrieked an ear-splitting version of Beyonce's 'Who Run the World (Girls!)', two of them proceeded to sit on his lap, pinning him to his seat, while a third performed an involuntary (on his part) lap-dance. Luckily, they disembarked a few stops later (still screeching and flinging their arms around random male passers-by) otherwise my friend would have been trapped in his seat all the way to zone six. He couldn't make himself heard over the impromptu karaoke and didn't feel he could push them off for fear of appearing aggressive. So, he simply laughed along uncomfortably, praying the entire humiliating episode would, at some stage, come to a conclusion.
Now, answer me honestly - as you read the above (totally true) anecdote, did it even occur to you to consider that the womens' actions were motivated by sexism? Did you assume that they were wild, unreasonable misandrists, hell bent on humiliating my friend because they view all men as nothing more than an object to be used for their pleasure? I suspect not. I suspect you thought they were probably just drunk and behaving like utter morons (as we all have, on occasion).
We're not typically programmed to interpret the things that happen to men in a gendered way. To name a few examples, suicide is the biggest killer of young men under 21 in the UK and nearly 90 percent of British vagrants are male, yet I've never heard either mental health funding or homelessness referred to as an issue of sex-bias, as they undoubtedly would be if these statistics applied to women.
Women, conversely, are seeing sexism everywhere. The philosopher Ludwig Wittgenstein wrote of a 'blik' which in his native German translates as a 'way of seeing'. He described it as like a pair of goggles, through which every one of us will interpret the events of our lives. Consequently, our beliefs become self-fulfilling prophecies. It therefore follows that if I believe, as a woman, I am constantly being belittled and judged by men, I will find ways to confirm this belief. I am of course not suggesting that male-on-female sexism doesn’t exist. That's demonstrably nonsense. Simply that the sort of 'it's raining! Even the SKY is sexist!' ethos that's apparently being adopted in some feminist quarters is stopping us from seeing the wood for the proverbial trees.
Take, for example, the recent article by the Telegraph's own Louisa Peacock, who was turned away from swanky cocktail lounge/restaurant Sushi Samba, because the doorman deemed her inappropriately dressed. As a consequence, she complained of her 'sexist' treatment to the management and the doorman was fired. The entire incident was cited as evidence of widespread 'Everyday Sexism'.
Louisa says the doorman 'looked her up and down' in a way that made her 'feel' as though she wasn’t dressed sexily enough. This is a perfect example of a ‘Blik’ in action. There are myriad interpretations of a look and only the looker can confirm if they are accurate.
If one extracts all the conjecture and simply reads the reported dialogue, it appears the entire exchange lasted no more than a minute. The doorman says Louisa is not dressed smartly. She maintains she is. He refuses to budge. She turns on her (not high) heels, having labelled this as a 'sexist' incident. Some further communication could have confirmed whether this was indeed about gender, or whether it was snobbery, or missing a memo about what constitutes a 'smart' dress code.
If it transpires that all of Louisa's assumptions are correct then I will be suitably outraged (which is to say 'a little bit but not enough to spoil my day'). It's obviously unacceptable for entry to an establishment to be refused or granted according to how much the doorman wants to have sex with potential clientele. But I don't have enough information to make an informed judgment.
If I were a man reading the account, I can imagine thinking ‘hang on, I'm expected to care about feminism because women are being denied access to bars based on their footwear? How many times have I heard "no trainers!" in my life?' I'd probably conclude that there were more important issues. To which some feminist factions would counter 'but it's symptomatic of the underlying misogyny pervading our society!' (their particular collective blik). To which the response would be “Not All Men” and so the whacking great chasm of misunderstanding between the sexes would spiral ad infinitum.
In conclusion - we all face obstacles in our lives. Generalised unfairness happens every day to almost everyone and should rightly be stamped out wherever possible. But women should apply very careful forethought before pronouncing something to be an issue of sexism. Unless of course, we want men to begin doing the same."...the isle is full of noises,
Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."
Comment
-
I suppose western middle-class women can appear a bit 'over-bilked', when stuff like this is going down with the less politically empowered women around the planet......
Yesterday's news - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-27593504
and a BBC link next to it gives us this....
2012 news - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20202686Comment
-
Ask Caliban - it was his choice of word!Originally posted by amateur51 View Post
I'm very disappointed. I had thought better of him.Comment
-
A Lady is the wife of a Lord or a Knight. Or a female peer.Comment
-
Some feminists go over the top with their feminism
Some anti-feminists go over the top with their anti-feminism
Both probably provide lots of column centimetres for journalists. I think this journalist was short of something to write about.
"just drunk and behaving like utter morons (as we all have, on occasion)". I haven't. Perhaps I'm a lady :-)It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.Comment
-
LOLOriginally posted by jean View Post
Is the 'L' word really streng verboten?
Very well. I hereby ask FF to make the necessary change to the thread title: could you replace 'ladies' with 'women' please FF?
It makes it sound far more brutal, I think, but Hey Ho!! Style, courtesy and irony must be silent, I had forgotten...."...the isle is full of noises,
Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."
Comment
-
Well, I think I would recast it completely, as I don't think: "What do you think of this, women?" will do either (though Scottycelt preferred wimmin - but I'm not keen).Originally posted by Caliban View Post
Would: "What do the women/female members of the forum think of this (and the men also, of course)?" set the right tone?It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.Comment
-
I remember the brave stance taken by the Greenham Common women (wimmin) losing much support by their anti-men stance. They blamed wars and aggression on men, conveniently forgetting who the British P.M. was at the time.Comment
-
You could possibly delete the "women/" from this, especially as you don't propose "men/male members" in brackets - but otherwise better, to be sure, even though longer.Originally posted by french frank View PostComment
-
Or it could be: "What do forum members (more particularly the women) think of this?"It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.Comment
Comment