Election period

[french frank]

This is frightening. I was about to display my ignorance and ask how the voting would go - what the ballot paper will look like. If all I can do is to nominate a party that does not seem to me to necessarily represent what I would wish. I thought the paper might have a list of candidates, and somehow I could choose between them, but if it's only the party then my strategy will have to be different, though it's still not necessarily how I'd like it to be. There might be some parties where I might agree to have (say) 3 people as possibles, but there might be a couple of "not under any circumstances" - in which case it would be safer to vote for a different party in which hopefully all would be "possible" and there would be zero "no-way" candidates. This could be particularly relevant in my area where one party has a lot of potential candidates.

It's not ideal. But if I remember it's a closed party list system. The names of the candidates (I think) are printed in their nominated order - i.e. in the order they will be elected according to the votes the party gets. The better system might be to have two ballot papers (or smaller constituencies to start with), one for the party and one for the candidate. But already it will be complicated this year by the local elections taking place on the same day!

From a party member's point of view :-) I can say that 'our' list of candidates has been voted for by the members themselves and their order is according to their voted popularity. Other parties may impose the list and the order to ensure certain people get elected (I really don't know what other parties do).

As far as I remember, all EU countries have to use a recognised form of PR for election to the EU parliament but they can choose which method they use. An 'open' party list system would allow all voters to choose between candidates in a party. Not sure that that is practical, on reflection, because most candidates are entirely unknown to the public anyway - and personal statements are of limited value other than for 'mavericks' e.g. who don't belong to a party.

[mercia]

received my postal voting papers yesterday, I have fifteen parties (118 candidates) to choose from, unfortunately I've only heard of six of them. Does anyone here know the difference between the "An Independence from Europe" party and "UK Independence Party" ? I vaguely remember the Roman party from last time, I think they want Latin as the official language. Another is called The Peace Party, now who wouldn't want that ? At least with a postal vote I have a little time to try and find out something about all these parties, for people turning up at the polling station and seeing the list for the first time isn't it a hopeless task ?

[Anna]

Here in Wales we have 4 MEPs comprised of: Conservative, Labour, Plaid and UKIP. When I said about tactical voting I had, of course, forgotten the voting system used. Nick Clegg keeps urging us to vote LD to knock UKIP out because the LDs suffered badly in the last election and percentage of votes between them and the Kippers was very close. However a vote for the LDs may mean a drop in votes for Plaid Cymru (I think it unlikely staunch Labour or Conservatives would switch to LibDems) so, as attractive as it is to me to possibly not have a UKIP candidate representing Wales I won't switch my vote from Plaid to the LDs. (Sorry frenchie!)

Meanwhile, the Opinium/Observer survey, conducted a fortnight before European elections later this month, shows that people are five times more likely to be able to name their local MP than any of their MEPs. Just 11% say they would be confident of naming one of their MEPs, against 52% who say they could name their MP and 31% who could name one of their local or county councillors. Just 8% say they have made contact with an MEP, while 79% say they have never considered doing so. Certainly I cannot name all four of my MEPs.

[Beef Oven!]

You can't actually meaningfully say that for anybody else. Some people, such as one of the former Presidents Bush, couldn't even say it for themselves - and in fairness admitted that.

You have no way of knowing whether I mean what I have just typed, or not :-)

Yes, I don't disagree with what you say, but I was not coming from an epistemological angle.

What I meant when I said 'they say what they believe', is that the UKIP's communications and policies do not go through some spin-doctoring trickery, they tell it like it is (please excuse me another quasi-existential phrase).

Even though the UKIP comes out with a few things, here and there, that make me wince, I'd rather go with them than people like Clegg and Cameron who strike me as deeply insincere sixth-form prefects who have recently experienced a pubescent growth-spurt.

[french frank]

Does anyone here know the difference between the "An Independence from Europe" party and "UK Independence Party" ?

From UKIP's POV they're "spoilers" - the 'An' at the beginning pretty much ensures they will appear at the top of the ballot paper, whereas UKIP will be at or near the bottom. Probably means they've fallen out with UKIP for some reason ... I think UKIP wanted to challenge it, but if a 'Literal Democrat' is allowed to stand (and poll 11,000 votes, with the Lib Dem losing by 700 votes), it appears you can call yourself anything.

I believe it was in Glasgow Hillhead that a candidate changed his name to 'Roy Harold Jenkins' to scupper the chances of 'Roy Harris Jenkins'.

Anna - don't apologise for not voting tactically: I don't believe anyone should in the Euro elections!

[Beef Oven!]

received my postal voting papers yesterday, I have fifteen parties (118 candidates) to choose from, unfortunately I've only heard of six of them. Does anyone here know the difference between the "An Independence from Europe" party and "UK Independence Party" ? I vaguely remember the Roman party from last time, I think they want Latin as the official language. Another is called The Peace Party, now who wouldn't want that ? At least with a postal vote I have a little time to try and find out something about all these parties, for people turning up at the polling station and seeing the list for the first time isn't it a hopeless task ?

I think that the 'An Independence From Europe Party' is a 'spoiler' party, possibly set up by someone who couldn't get their own way within the UKIP. They put 'an' at the front of their party's name to get them to the top of the candidates listings -they hope that voters wishing to vote for the UKIP, will see the 'spoiler' party first and mistake them for the UKIP and put their X there!

Not the most mature democratic behaviour!

Tony Blair had this problem a few years ago, but managed to force the spoiler party to change its name, IIRC.

[aeolium]

They can stand for what they like, but once elected they should certainly DO something for their money, surely? Just as I would expect their 16 candidates standing for Bristol City Council to undertake the normal duties of a councillor if elected.

Though getting elected to the UK parliament in sufficient numbers would actually give them some power. As MPs, should they not work for their constituents?

Yes, but as MEPs - which I thought was the focus of the discussion, the European election being nearly upon us - they could argue that they were working for their constituents by opposing legislation which appeared to assert or increase EU power. And the concept of a constituency surely differs in the European elections as any elector is likely to have a number of MEPs from different parties due to the size of the regions. So anyone in Somerset interested in obtaining flood relief money, for instance, could write to the MEP he thought most likely to work towards obtaining that - not necessarily the MEP of a party for which he had voted.

[MrGongGong]

Not the most mature democratic behaviour!
.

Indeed not mature at all
Almost as bad as being elected to represent people, not going most of the time and when you do being outrageously rude to everyone else and so on and so on .............
Par for the (golf?) course matey

[aeolium]

received my postal voting papers yesterday, I have fifteen parties (118 candidates) to choose from, unfortunately I've only heard of six of them. Does anyone here know the difference between the "An Independence from Europe" party and "UK Independence Party" ? I vaguely remember the Roman party from last time, I think they want Latin as the official language. Another is called The Peace Party, now who wouldn't want that ? At least with a postal vote I have a little time to try and find out something about all these parties, for people turning up at the polling station and seeing the list for the first time isn't it a hopeless task ?

Here is a brief guide from the BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27218759

[MrGongGong]

Even though the UKIP comes out with a few things, here and there, that make me wince, I'd rather go with them than people like Clegg and Cameron who strike me as deeply insincere sixth-form prefects who have recently experienced a pubescent growth-spurt.

any port in a storm then

"Voting for UKIP as a 'protest vote' is like shitting in your hotel bed to protest bad service and then realizing you have to sleep in a shitty bed."

(seems appropriate)

[Anna]

As to what MEPs do all day ..... voting records for N. Farage - http://www.votewatch.eu/en/nigel-farage.html - show he is absent most of the time and has only voted on around 42.97% of resolutions.
Back to my 4 Welsh MEPs and records show the following voting records: Labour 93.99%; Plaid 89.01%; Conservative 84.77% and UKIP 60.27% At least it shows that 3 of them seem to be earning their money.

[Beef Oven!]

As to what MEPs do all day ..... voting records for N. Farage - http://www.votewatch.eu/en/nigel-farage.html - show he is absent most of the time and has only voted on around 42.97% of resolutions.
Back to my 4 Welsh MEPs and records show the following voting records: Labour 93.99%; Plaid 89.01%; Conservative 84.77% and UKIP 60.27% At least it shows that 3 of them seem to be earning their money.

Or perhaps none of them are earning their money!

The EU is a bit of a gravy train, just ask Kinnock and his family!

[Beef Oven!]

any port in a storm then

(seems appropriate)

Your fecal berth analogy is not relevant to the UKIP.

The UKIP would say that the hotel is crap, we are going to politely check out, and we're not coming back.

It is you and the other parties that seem to enjoy rolling around in a bed full of fecal matter and refuse to get out of that bed.

Each to his own, I suppose

[mercia]

Here is a brief guide from the BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27218759

thank you, that should help

[MrGongGong]

Your fecal berth analogy is not relevant to the UKIP.

The UKIP would say that the hotel is crap, we are going to politely check out, and we're not coming back.

It is you and the other parties that seem to enjoy rolling around in a bed full of fecal matter and refuse to get out of that bed.

Each to his own, I suppose

It's spot on i'm afraid
the soiled bed IS UKIP