Election period

[french frank]

Right: I have now been consulted by the party and have given my opinions:

Nick Clegg should resign as party leader and as Deputy Prime Minister and the LibDems should withdraw from the coalition: the country has spoken. (That doesn't mean I think the decision was wrong in the first place: just that people judge on results and perceptions, and have the benefit of hindsight). For the party, we failed to get any of the main signal reforms, though we achieved a bit for the nation.

For Europe: we had the right message, communicated as well as possible. The good news (?) is that UKIP wiped out the BNP.

My choices for new party leader, among the MPs: 1) Alan Beith (stop-gap while we sort things out); 2) Vince Cable - stigma of coalition, or he might have been first 3) Malcolm Bruce (my old MP in Aberdeenshire - a bit like A. Beith 4) Danny Alexander - even bigger stigma of coalition, but the tuition fee debacle obscured the fact that the package assured increased government funding for higher education (they have to foot the bill for unpaid loans - which is equivalent to paying the fees in the first place). Possibly the only thing where the Cons were outwitted, but it rebounded on the Lib Dems.

"The humiliation of defeat teaches us more than the vanity of victory." (Sir Graham Watson, my former MEP)

[Beef Oven!]

Right: I have now been consulted by the party and have given my opinions:

Nick Clegg should resign as party leader and as Deputy Prime Minister and the LibDems should withdraw from the coalition: the country has spoken. (That doesn't mean I think the decision was wrong in the first place: just that people judge on results and perceptions, and have the benefit of hindsight). For the party, we failed to get any of the main signal reforms, though we achieved a bit for the nation.

For Europe: we had the right message, communicated as well as possible. The good news (?) is that UKIP wiped out the BNP.

My choices for new party leader, among the MPs: 1) Alan Beith (stop-gap while we sort things out); 2) Vince Cable - stigma of coalition, or he might have been first 3) Malcolm Bruce (my old MP in Aberdeenshire - a bit like A. Beith 4) Danny Alexander - even bigger stigma of coalition, but the tuition fee debacle obscured the fact that the package assured increased government funding for higher education (they have to foot the bill for unpaid loans - which is equivalent to paying the fees in the first place). Possibly the only thing where the Cons were outwitted, but it rebounded on the Lib Dems.

"The humiliation of defeat teaches us more than the vanity of victory." (Sir Graham Watson, my former MEP)

Humilliation is a negative emotion and teaches little.

It has been clear for some time that Clegg is a college-boy turned career politician who is damaging his party as he builds his CV. No hindsight required, really.

The UKIP did not destroy the BNP, they destroyed themselves.

[ahinton]

Too generalised a question iimss - as also are ahinton's in the post following. I think these issues and who serves different interests have to be related to the kind of economic system we are all expected to bow to and serve, and how that determines what does and doesn't work, or any discussion flounders.

But all that I was asking was how "democracy" as it is geenerally understood could flourish and be seen to flourish in a four-party environment in which the likelihood of any one party achieving an outright majority at a General Election is gravely diminished thereby whereas, if I understand you correctly, I think that what you may be referring to is the situation in which all four such parties subscribe, to a greater or lesser extent, to some kind of self-serving economic system (capitalism), which is not really quite the same thing.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Looking around Europe, I see the same me-me-me/blame-someone-else vote has taken place there too, with far right parties doing well, as they did in the 1930s.

[teamsaint]

Looking around Europe, I see the same me-me-me/blame-someone-else vote has taken place there too, with far right parties doing well, as they did in the 1930s.

Which is what happens when neo con business and banking agendas are left to run the world unfettered, I guess.

Its how business is run these days, as it seems.

[Anna]

My choices for new party leader, among the MPs: 1) Alan Beith (stop-gap while we sort things out); 2) Vince Cable - stigma of coalition, or he might have been first 3) Malcolm Bruce (my old MP in Aberdeenshire - a bit like A. Beith 4) Danny Alexander - even bigger stigma of coalition, but the tuition fee debacle obscured the fact that the package assured increased government funding for higher education (they have to foot the bill for unpaid loans - which is equivalent to paying the fees in the first place). Possibly the only thing where the Cons were outwitted, but it rebounded on the Lib Dems.

"The humiliation of defeat teaches us more than the vanity of victory." (Sir Graham Watson, my former MEP)

Menzies Campbell, on tv this morning, said Nick Clegg will definitely not resign, he will continue to lead. However, I suspect he'll go sooner or later. Vince Cable would be a huge mistake, as Sandra Gidley said on Today this morning - the LibDem brand is now tainted [by agreeing to coalition, broken promises] - so any new leader should be untouched by recent history. I see Tim Farron, who has never been a Minister, has for a while been put forward (he was very good on the election programme last night)

As to the vote in general - it's a protest, a wake-up call, a kick in the ballots. I do think Labour must be worried though (and I think the wrong brother's in charge)

[MrGongGong]

Which is what happens when neo con business and banking agendas are left to run the world unfettered, I guess.

Its how business is run these days, as it seems.

Sadly all to true
which is why the whole "story" of some folks being an "alternative" is such a fiction IMV

[Beef Oven!]

Looking around Europe, I see the same me-me-me/blame-someone-else vote has taken place there too, with far right parties doing well, as they did in the 1930s.

The old chestnut.

[french frank]

Menzies Campbell, on tv this morning, said Nick Clegg will definitely not resign, he will continue to lead.

He's certainly being supported by the bigwigs, but they don't necessarily have the final say. I'll be interested to see the results of the party survey which I completed this morning - last time the mood was rather more supportive of the leadership than I was. But Nick Clegg was in the bottom five of LD ministers for popularity - and that was the view of LD members!

BUT - Roy Jenkins resigned as leader of the SDP after a much smaller electoral setback than this. The problem then was that there was no credible alternative and Owen led the party disastrously to a split. However, the new Liberal Democrats were at about 3% in the polls, behind Owen's Nu-SDP at one point.

Even Thatcher was forced out in the end.

Tim Farron is a good egg - my choice for President. but I don't think he's ready to lead any party.

[Beef Oven!]

He's certainly being supported by the bigwigs, but they don't necessarily have the final say. I'll be interested to see the results of the party survey which I completed this morning - last time the mood was rather more supportive of the leadership than I was. But Nick Clegg was in the bottom five of LD ministers for popularity - and that was the view of LD members!

BUT - Roy Jenkins resigned as leader of the SDP after a much smaller electoral setback than this. The problem then was that there was no credible alternative and Owen led the party disastrously to a split. However, the new Liberal Democrats were at about 3% in the polls, behind Owen's Nu-SDP at one point.

Even Thatcher was forced out in the end.

Tim Farron is a good egg - my choice for President. but I don't think he's ready to lead any party.

Bring back Lord Ashdown as caretaker, until a new Paddy Ashdown can be found!

[Richard Barrett]

far right parties doing well, as they did in the 1930s

This is the saddest thing about these election results. And at the moment all the far-right parties are being coy with one another about associating with one another in the European parliament - Farage doesn't want to be seen with the Front National in France, who in turn disapprove of Golden Dawn in Greece... so far, anyway. But all of them (just like the fascists in the 1930s) depend equally on the same formula, which goes (a) this country is in a mess, (b) we can sort it out by getting rid of those foreign ________ (delete as applicable). Of course it's true that the mainstream parties are self-serving, morally bankrupt and in most meaningful respects indistinguishable, but really, these far-right demagogues (and I include Farage and his gang) are not the answer.

[Beef Oven!]

This is the saddest thing about these election results. And at the moment all the far-right parties are being coy with one another about associating with one another in the European parliament - Farage doesn't want to be seen with the Front National in France, who in turn disapprove of Golden Dawn in Greece... so far, anyway. But all of them (just like the fascists in the 1930s) depend equally on the same formula, which goes (a) this country is in a mess, (b) we can sort it out by getting rid of those foreign ________ (delete as applicable). Of course it's true that the mainstream parties are self-serving, morally bankrupt and in most meaningful respects indistinguishable, but really, these far-right demagogues (and I include Farage and his gang) are not the answer.

Well, you shouldn't include Farage in a far-right demagogue group, whatever he is.

There might be parties and people across the world who want to 'get rid of those foreign____' as you put it. But getting rid of a bunch of college-boy professional, cynical politicians is more like it. Unless you can back up your claims about 'far right' getting rid of....etc.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The old chestnut.

The old chestnut is similar to the new one. For Jews, substitute Romanians.

[Beef Oven!]

The old chestnut is similar to the new one. For Jews, substitute Romanians.

This sort of silly one-liner works better on Twitter.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

4) Danny Alexander - even bigger stigma of coalition,

When the Coalition was created, I was convinced this man was a Tory, and was staggered to find he was a Lib-Dem, so blinkered he was by the larger party's inaccurate dogma about the cost of public sector pensions.

Vince Cable is the only one who has really stood up to be counted.