How much do we need?

[amateur51]

That's right, of course - the risk remains and is the same but it's shared by a relatively large number of people; rather like shares, one might say...

But shares are typically the post-entrepreneurial phase ....

[ahinton]

But shares are typically the post-entrepreneurial phase ....

Largely true, but the cap fits nevertheless and I don't see that it makes a material difference to what's under discussion here.

[amateur51]

Largely true, but the cap fits nevertheless and I don't see that it makes a material difference to what's under discussion here.

it's just my aversion to your tendency to beatify the entrepreneur :winkything:

[ahinton]

it's just my aversion to your tendency to beatify the entrepreneur :winkything:

Recognition and beatification are far from synonymous!

[Serial_Apologist]

"DOCUMENTARY OF THE WEEK New series Fancy an upgrade to your mobile handset? Thinking of getting a new sofa? Oh, you capitalist patsy, you! Jacques Peretti knows exactly why you're locked into a consumerist cycle of shopping and throwing away, and he tells us in another of his crisply argued series.

"The gist of it is that, once we bought stuff that lasted, and only replaced it when it was knackered, now consumer goods are designed to become obsolete, to be thrown away and regularly replaced in favour of something newer, shinier and more fashionable.

"This hasn't happened by accident but as a result of antiheroes whom Peretti names and shames, froM the 1920s light-bulb-makers' cartel to Swatch watches to Steve Jobs at Apple. The programme is full of striking images, too: one look at a post-festival field strewn with new tents that have been used once then discarded, and you see Peretti's point. DAVID BUTCHER".

Not one to be missed!

Just a reminder that Part 2 of this so-far excellent 3-parter starts at 9 pm on BBC2 tonight.

[MrGongGong]

Just a reminder that Part 2 of this so-far excellent 3-parter starts at 9 pm on BBC2 tonight.

Thanks for this
Interesting stuff

[Anna]

The two most thought provoking items in the programme were about statins and antibacterial soap. The former should be of interest to many here given the average age of R3 listeners! :-) I found it astonishing that the ideal target cholesterol level to aim for had been reduced by the drug companies, not medical research (unless I misunderstood) And now I think it has been recently announced statins for all over 55 (?) no matter what your reading is. As the Dr. in the programme said, what's wrong with lifestyle/diet changes instead of a quick fix. This of course relates to obesity issues as well, are we going down the gastric band route for everyone?

As for antibacterial soaps (and more particularly kitchen wipes/sprays), there's a lot of research now that this is contributing to the increase of superbugs (via watercourses when you rinse) by wiping out the good as well as the bad bacteria. The other thing about antibacterial soaps v normal soaps is people wash their hands less thoroughly with an antibac, quick squirt and a sloosh, again quick fix.

[aeolium]

The two most thought provoking items in the programme were about statins and antibacterial soap. The former should be of interest to many here given the average age of R3 listeners! :-) I found it astonishing that the ideal target cholesterol level to aim for had been reduced by the drug companies, not medical research (unless I misunderstood) And now I think it has been recently announced statins for all over 55 (?) no matter what your reading is. As the Dr. in the programme said, what's wrong with lifestyle/diet changes instead of a quick fix.

While there is debate about how extensively statins should be prescribed, there is as I understand it, fairly strong evidence that statins have been of benefit in reducing deaths from cardiovascular disease. See for instance this summary of a review of the evidence by the independent Cochrane group in 2011. It's easy to be sceptical about the motives of drug companies in promoting certain drugs, but that does not mean that the medication is necessarily ineffective or of no benefit. I'm more sceptical about the claims that an entire medical profession has been hoodwinked into prescribing expensive drugs on a very wide basis when NHS resources are under severe pressure. Isn't it more likely that they are making the judgement, on the evidence, that spending on preventative medicine is better than the high cost of treating stroke and heart attack patients in hospital (not to mention avoiding preventable deaths)? Still, that didn't fit in with the thesis of the programme-maker who did not seek to interview those in favour of statins, or discuss the evidence.

You can certainly argue that people should be changing their lifestyles, which might be just as effective as taking statins, but it seems to be much harder to get people to do this. There have been lots of attempts from government campaigns and programmes on TV to get people to change diet but rates of obesity and excess weight continue to rise.

[Serial_Apologist]

The final episode of David Perretti's excellent 3-parter "The Men Who Made Us Spend", on last night, showed how the admen got children into pester power, and, for one who rarely looks hard at advertisements was a real shocker, not having realised what I'd always claimed to be the case without the evidence to hand, that the aim of consumerism is to reduce us all, adults included, to a state of infantile enslavement to artifically elicited and perpetuated "wants", by methods unabashedly and shamelessly admitted to Perretti by leaders in the industry.

As an in-depth look at what appears to motivate most people's idea of happiness, spending, this was possibly the greatest expose of the values underpinning capitalism since "The Century of the Self" was shown, a decade or so ago.

[Ferretfancy]

To see how little has really changed in more than a century, it's quite instructive to read HG Wells's novel Tono Bungay, written in 1909 when the power of advertising was just beginning to be understood. This is one of his best books, rather forgotten now, the reflective last passage in the novel was a strong influence on Vaughan Williams when he was composing his London Symphony.

[Serial_Apologist]

To see how little has really changed in more than a century, it's quite instructive to read HG Wells's novel Tono Bungay, written in 1909 when the power of advertising was just beginning to be understood. This is one of his best books, rather forgotten now, the reflective last passage in the novel was a strong influence on Vaughan Williams when he was composing his London Symphony.

Thanks Ferret.

The final episode of the programme is linked below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_40425605&1&feature=iv_vid=fiTxIHUKoQg&v=HMATiGKPuHs

[amateur51]

While Mark Simmonds explains why he can't live on his ministerial salary plus expenses, Chris Mullin helpfully offers an alternative explanation

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/12/90000-not-enough-expenses-mark-simmonds-tories-ministers-wages

[Serial_Apologist]

While Mark Simmonds explains why he can't live on his ministerial salary plus expenses, Chris Mullin helpfully offers an alternative explanation

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...inisters-wages

In several senses, hoisted on his own petard, might not one say?

[P. G. Tipps]

Didn't Mr Simmonds realise his 'family life' might suffer when he chose to stand as an MP and accept his ministerial post? Didn't he weigh up all the pros and cons of the job?

Mullins makes a good point about the 'serving women' on wages not far above the lowly legal minimum.

Those who moan that they cannot live on well above average wages, whilst themselves purporting to 'serve', might consider just how utterly ridiculous they sound to the majority of the population.

[Serial_Apologist]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/conservative-mps-expenses/11029709/How-Taxpayers-helped-fund-1m-home-of-minister-who-cant-live-on-MP's-pay.html