Clegg V Farage

[jean]

It was moved (I see from the log) by one of the hosts, probably as a precaution given the number of times the subject has been aired and usually ended with the thread being closed or shunted off somewhere else.

A pity in that case, as the OP was hardly controversial, but contained something which had never been aired before - a pointer to an excellent programme on the topic which posters might have missed.

[ahinton]

Yes that's true. A good observation. But remember, there are more episodes to come, so who knows how the interaction will play itself out?

Oh, God forbid that it even should!

To be serious about it, I really do not think that either - that's to say the Unholy Trinity Show that preceded the last General Election and the much more recent Clegula Farrago - does anyone, least of all its audience, any favours whatsoever, the principal risk being the self-undermining of the general credibility of each participant as a party leader and, with it, that of the parties that each represents.

Of course Europe today - and the EU today - are very different to what either was at the time of inauguration of the Council of Europe 65 years ago - that much is as obvious as it would be inevitable - and the latest Russian machinations might risk to a greater or lesser extent bringing about even more drastic changes to the former than have been witnessed in a long time - but Mr Farage's loud-mouthed brayings about wanting to pull Britain away from fundamental parts of its relationship with EU do no one any favours; they could also now reasonably be regarded as premature, to the extent that, whereas his wishes in that direction are currently for all four UK member states to sever those connections with EU, the second largest of them may no longer be involved if it chooses independence in a few months' time and, if the third and fourth largest eventually follow suit, there will no longer even be a United Kingdom for him to want to distance from EU and he'll find himself obliged to change his party's name.

Yes, EU is a far from perfect union of states (one might say the same for US, albeit for rather different reasons), not least to the extent that it is representative only of a large part of western Europe rather than Europe as a whole. That said, an expansionist EU will inevitably raise questions about where the eastern borders of Europe do or should end - and this will have especial significance if Russia does show increasing signs of wanting to expand westwards.

What Mr Farage has to say about Britain's membership of EU sits less than comfortably with his views on EU and Europe as a whole and he seems to have far less to say about the latter; would he ideally want to see EU dissolve altogether, or would he and his party be content simply with the annulment of rescinding England's membership?

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Given that the City and its wider activities drives (owns) UK economic policy this question is an illusion. It aint going to happen Nige, talk to your former bankocracy associates.

"Follow the Money" as they say down the market on a rainy saturday.

But leaving the EU is really not what this is about. Its mobilising race and bigotry and thats always had milage in Brit politics. Same circus...different clowns.

[gurnemanz]

But leaving the EU is really not what this is about. Its race and bigotry and thats always had milage in Brit politics. Same circus...

I suspect you're right there - Powell's rivers of blood etc. I would add the "let the others speak English" attitude to foreign languages which I encountered in my career as a German teacher - from colleagues as well as students. One of the few good things about Gove's performance is his promotion of Foreign Languages in the curriculum. Recently, Farage was outraged to be surrounded by people around him on a train talking foreign. If I had been there with my wife we would have been joining them by talking German. Strange, since I believe Farage is also married to a German woman.

[Beef Oven!]

What Mr Farage has to say about Britain's membership of EU sits less than comfortably with his views on EU and Europe as a whole and he seems to have far less to say about the latter; would he ideally want to see EU dissolve altogether, or would he and his party be content simply with the annulment of rescinding England's membership?

I think the answer to your question is fairly straight forward. Farage and his party are not seeking to dissolve the EU altogether, just withdrawal.

[MrGongGong]

But leaving the EU is really not what this is about. Its mobilising race and bigotry and thats always had milage in Brit politics. Same circus...different clowns.

Spot on

But i'm a bit worried about mrOven who seems to have lost his kipper mojo somewhat :winkeye:

[Roehre]

Let the UK leave the EU.
It would be very nice no longer to have to try to speak English to all those who are living in France, Spain or Italy and don't take the trouble to speak the language of the people surrounding them. They are repatriating to Britain as they aren't enjoying EU-citizenschip anymore after UK's withdrawing from the EU.:devil:

Or having to negotiate with the British, or the British MEPs (like Farrage :biggrin:), who haven't the slightest how to work with the Commission and the other MEPs. They lack a complete undertanding of the necessity to maintain relations and build coalitions in order to get their own proposals, or their own opposition against other bills, successfully through the European Parlament (even Malta has got more sucess :yikes: :laugh:)

Or no longer hearing that Brussels dictates Westminster as our MPs are simply rubberstamping and goldplating the whole lot coming from there, whereas the Bundestag or the Assemblée Nationale are managing the same "dictates" without burdening their citizens unneccessarily because these institutions use their discretionary powers to implement those rules which are taylored to the specific circumstances in their respective countries only.

Or...

Or..

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

"Stands the church clock at ten to three,
and is there warm lager still for tea?"

Lager's off, Dear.

[Beef Oven!]

Let the UK leave the EU.
It would be very nice no longer to have to try to speak English to all those who are living in France, Spain or Italy and don't take the trouble to speak the language of the people surrounding them. They are repatriating to Britain as they aren't enjoying EU-citizenschip anymore after UK's withdrawing from the EU.:devil:

Esperanto could be resurrected?

[Roehre]

Esperanto could be resurrected?

Could be an interesting idea :biggrin:

[Beef Oven!]

Could be an interesting idea :biggrin:

http://i.imgur.com/uVWOh1m.png

[ahinton]

I think the answer to your question is fairly straight forward. Farage and his party are not seeking to dissolve the EU altogether, just withdrawal.

Well, if that is indeed the case - and, of course, he wouldn't possess the power to have it dissolved anyway, even if he were Prime Minister and his party had a majority government (each of which is about as likely as David Matthews writing like Iannis Xenakis or vice versa) - one might ask why, if he therefore appears to consider it to be good enough for 27 other member states, why does he deem it to be so contrary to the interests of this one?...

[Ariosto]

Sorry I chose the wrong platform, but I was unaware of the political section. So far everyone is making reasonable posts.

I used to be very tolerant about immigration and having lots of nice foreigners living here in London. I notice a lot of the forum members come from nice parts of the world, but here in London the overcrowding is becoming intolerable. It is in fact now quite hard to hear English being spoken and if it is then its with a foreign twang. But then it serves us right I suppose if we live in a big stinky overcrowded city like London and others. The underground and busses are jammed packed as are the roads when I occasionally drive. Oh to live in the UK's green and pleasant land, if there remains much left which has not been built on.

Trouble is, London is bursting with concert halls and recording and broadcasting studios. :winkeye::laugh: No room to move ...

[amateur51]

"Stands the church clock at ten to three,
and is there warm lager still for tea?"

Lager's off, Dear.

:laugh:

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Sorry I chose the wrong platform, but I was unaware of the political section. So far everyone is making reasonable posts.

I used to be very tolerant about immigration and having lots of nice foreigners living here in London. I notice a lot of the forum members come from nice parts of the world, but here in London the overcrowding is becoming intolerable. It is in fact now quite hard to hear English being spoken and if it is then its with a foreign twang. But then it serves us right I suppose if we live in a big stinky overcrowded city like London and others. The underground and busses are jammed packed as are the roads when I occasionally drive. Oh to live in the UK's green and pleasant land, if there remains much left which has not been built on.

Trouble is, London is bursting with concert halls and recording and broadcasting studios. :winkeye::laugh: No room to move ...

Lots of wonderful green open spaces in Wales...well, when we are not being "swamped" by THE ENGLISH! ( that is a joke!).

And we have Charlie Church as our cultural icon. Bliss to be alive.