Clegg V Farage

[Beef Oven!]

backwards and forwards staring at the wall in a straightjacket

Stop being silly, he's taking the country by storm!

I reckon the UKIP will trounce the other parties in the coming European elections, consolidate their position in the local elections and will lay to rest the Liberal Democratic Party in the next general election!

People like you, constantly talking about the UKIP and helping to create a truly populist party, deserve a beer, at least, from Nigel!

[MrGongGong]

Yeah right, man of the people
in the "real world" of trading nothing to make money in the city zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz what a tw*t
so different to everyone else my a*se

Just goes to show what a poverty of ideas there is :-(

[teamsaint]

I'm not sure that that's the right target. Is History about 'teaching pupils to challenge the status quo'? What status quo? Brainwashing might be teaching that the peasants in the Peasants' Revolt were the rabble who had to be kept down and know their place. French Rev ditto.

Children in secondary school are taught History from age 11 - do they spend all the time now being 'brainwashed' about the British Empire, the two World Wars and the Blessed Margaret? Or the overthrow of the Tsar in Russia, the rise of communism and the Blessed Tony? None of it with any background as to why such things occurred. Or biased explanations as to why they occurred.

Just asking, as it's been a long time since I was brainwashed by either side in my history lessons. We didn't study any modern history so there were no moral lessons. - it may be a constant shifting battle between opposing world views for aught I know.

AS far as I am concerned,what is taught in History should not be taught in such a way as to help keep or entrench the world views of those who already own and run the world/country.
IMO, we have had generations of that. I haven't seen the new History syllabus, but I would be really surprised if there is a radical change.
History (and other subjects) should encourage students not to accept the status quo, to question why things happened, or why other things didn't happen, to seek underlying causes, (why do the Monarchy get such a great press in history books, why is war a constant in British and Western history, that sort of thing.) As regards empires,British, Roman, Norman, American, Russian, Austro- Hungarian etc, what a great module THAT would make done properly. Real perspective on the problems of the world.

[teamsaint]

Yeah right, man of the people
in the "real world" of trading nothing to make money in the city zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz what a tw*t
so different to everyone else my a*se

Just goes to show what a poverty of ideas there is :-(

only amongst paid politicians. Plenty of ideas about. Just like there is (in the UK) plenty of cash. Only its kept to a relative few.
Actually , even some of them probably have good ideas, but as for talking about or implementing them....

[MrGongGong]

AS far as I am concerned,what is taught in History should not be taught in such a way as to help keep or entrench the world views of those who already own and run the world/country.
IMO, we have had generations of that. I haven't seen the new History syllabus, but I would be really surprised if there is a radical change.
History (and other subjects) should encourage students not to accept the status quo, to question why things happened, or why other things didn't happen, to seek underlying causes, (why do the Monarchy get such a great press in history books, why is war a constant in British and Western history, that sort of thing.) As regards empires,British, Roman, Norman, American, Russian, Austro- Hungarian etc, what a great module THAT would make done properly. Real perspective on the problems of the world.

Well put IMV

I think (and my son would be so much better on this as he IS doing A level History at the moment!) people confuse learning a subject with learning the facts that make up the subject. People write outraged letters to newspapers and rant away online about how its shocking that someone can pass an exam in History without learning the dates of kings and queens and so on.

If one considers music teaching. Many of us did O level Musicology. We learnt ABOUT music, history, theory, dates (again!) and so on BUT we didn't DO music. No sounds passed our lips, no instruments were played etc.
Some folks want this back.
What would probably be useful would to have more thinking in music BUT not learning when Mozart was born and so on.

If learning how to practice History, Music or anything else is "Brainwashing" then lets have more of it.

(But mrW seems to have run out of steam on his pronouncements)

[MrGongGong]

only amongst paid politicians. Plenty of ideas about. Just like there is (in the UK) plenty of cash. Only its kept to a relative few.
Actually , even some of them probably have good ideas, but as for talking about or implementing them....

Absolutely

Which makes it rather puzzling that this one man rage machine seems to think that he is somehow NOT part of this when that's exactly what he is.

Strange indeed
and stranger that people seem to think that it REALLY is a "choice" between these two idiots.

[Ariosto]

To be serious for a minute, it appears to me that we are all being brainwashed by the press, by the establishment, by radio and TV, and by the political parties. Teachers have to a certain degree to follow a government line, or they may be replaced. Not so different to Russia, America, or other dictatorial countries.

As the late great Tony Benn said, "we never learn from history." (I would add that we also distort history).

Farage may have been wrong that the EU is actually in the process of planning an EU air force, but he is probably right that they have a long term ambition to eventually have an army, navy and air force which could be part of, or an addition to, NATO.

I think he was right that the EU members might start wars between each other when and if the EU falls apart. (Which could be happening as we speak ...)

I would also agree with the prediction from several different people that the LibDems will be dealt a fatal blow at the next General Election. Clegg as deputy PM has done more harm to their cause than anyone in the last 40 years.

[ahinton]

Nigel's really rocking!

Indeed; Nigel Farage and Nick Clegg; a rock and a hard place...

[ahinton]

Stop being silly, he's taking the country by storm!

Tell that to the flooded people of the Somerset levels!

People like you, constantly talking about the UKIP

Do you assume that you alone have a right to mention that party here and to accuse anyone else who does so of "constantly talking about" it?

a beer, at least, from Nigel!

I can't abide beer, so he can save himself the price of a pint where I'm concerned!

Clegg and Farridge
Equal Marriage
Go together like a band and garridge
This I tell Beef brother
You can't trash one without the other

Seriously, though, the unedifying soap-operatic Clegg and Farage show is looking increasingly like a spectacle whose abiding impression is one of each participant competing with the other for sheer risibility...

[Beef Oven!]

only amongst paid politicians. Plenty of ideas about. Just like there is (in the UK) plenty of cash. Only its kept to a relative few.
Actually , even some of them probably have good ideas, but as for talking about or implementing them....

Don't worry about what other people have got. The politics of envy is a dead end street.

[ahinton]

Don't worry about what other people have got. The politics of envy is a dead end street.

It may well be so - and indeed should be so - but that does not alter the fact that too much cash in too few places can risk halting social progress.

[Beef Oven!]

It may well be so - and indeed should be so - but that does not alter the fact that too much cash in too few places can risk halting social progress.

Fact? Social progress? Too much? Too few places?

This is a bit emotional - not like your usual posts.

Glad that you acknowledge that politics of envy is at play here and is a dead end, though.

[ahinton]

Fact? Social progress? Too much? Too few places?

Well, it's hardly headline news that too much wealth sewn up in too few places generates the risk of impedance to social progress, still less an idea that I hatched up myself!

Glad that you acknowledge that politics of envy is at play here and is a dead end, though.

Envy gets no one anywhere that's worth going, whether it be of wealth or anything else; I, for example, do not possess the kind of orchestral technique that the young Schönberg, or Strauss, or Mahler, did, but I'm not about to become envious as a consequence...

[Beef Oven!]

Envy gets no one anywhere that's worth going, whether it be of wealth or anything else; I, for example, do not possess the kind of orchestral technique that the young Schönberg, or Strauss, or Mahler, did, but I'm not about to become envious as a consequence...

Agreed.

[teamsaint]

I call it increasing social and economic equality, which is what it is. You call it the politics of envy.

When I see some solid proof where societies work better when increasing income inequality occurs, then I might reconsider any position I might have.

" The politics of envy" is a worthless and divisive expression.