The politics of the left in the UK

[jean]

...the miseries of Michael Foot's leadership, the militant tendency and the sheer lack of popular appeal of the hard left in the 70s...

...[Militant] gave Kinnock an excuse nationwide politically and organisationally to eviscerate the entire left from the LP, jean...

Shall we have a new thread for this important subject?

[Beef Oven!]

Shall we have a new thread for this important subject?

"...the miseries of Michael Foot's leadership, the militant tendency and the sheer lack of popular appeal of the hard left in the 70s..."

The problem with the appeal of the 'hard left' in the 70s was not helped by the way left policy was presented. Many people were in favour of nationalisation of industries, in that they didn't want any more or any less nationalisation. This could have been factored into policy, but the left were in favour of increasing nationalisation. This is just one example.

[jean]

From the other thread, it was evident that everyone (almost) loved Tony Benn, and nobody (at all) loved Militant.

What's to choose between them?

[Beef Oven!]

From the other thread, it was evident that everyone (almost) loved Tony Benn, and nobody (at all) loved Militant.

What's to choose between them?

Tony loved the working class and wanted to be one of us.

Militant hated the middle class.

I fundamentally believe that human beings know the difference between right and wrong and thus separated Militant and Tony accordingly.

Positiveness will always win out over the politics of hate and envy.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

hmmm the Militant Tendency .... i worked in Water Street around 79/81 and the stoppages and demos were non stop...

but not just them there were organised left groups in ASTMS who were not pleasant; and you would not want to encounter the SWP on a dark street ... i remember the intolerance, anger and violence ... all utterly ineffective

not to mention the 'crisis what crisis' Callaghan failures and and Winter of Discontent followed in short order by Mrs T's first win ....

Labour [the party] also failed imho when it failed to hold a proper election for Leader after John Smith died ... that left them with the rumbling of G Brown's envy and rage for the next decade, with the his pretence that he was the voice of the Left and the only genuine voice of the workers - absolute tosh, he was the voice of his own ego maniacal dysfunction


Maoism and the LRB used to figure a lot in N London as i recall ....

[Serial_Apologist]

From the other thread, it was evident that everyone (almost) loved Tony Benn, and nobody (at all) loved Militant.

What's to choose between them?

It depended on how one understood social and political change coming about, and how the general public understood all this with the help of a press and mass media hostile to such ideas of change.

Benn and Militant had reached similar conclusions in this regard, seeing change as to be effected by electing a Labour government committed to a left wing programme. Militant, from memory, argued for such a programme to include nationalisation of "the commanding heights of the economy", adding the banks and I can't remember whom else, maybe the top British-owned multinationals, to the list of those still under public ownership, such as coal mines, NHS, iron & steel, motor manufacturers, water, public transport and energy suppliers, adding as a corollary that the managerial form of social ownership should be "workers' control". Again my memory is hazy now - this was 30-40 years ago - but how such a Labour government could come about was seen as dependent on the political balance of power within the labour movement - the Party and its affiliated trade unions etc. Given that the latter was heavily weighted in the right's favour within the structures, and that this enfavourement rested on a lack of internal party accountability, so that annual conference - nominally the party policy determining forum - could accept or reject policymaking motions favourable or disfavourable to its privileged control, any success in turning the party and its leadership leftwards depended on democratising the party from bottom to top. Militant had devised a formula to these ends, known then as a third, a third and a third: one third of policy determining votes would come from the affiliated unions, one third from the constituency party membership, and one third from the Labour MPs. Coming from a different perspective of having experienced and participated in government, and read up on his Marx and British history, Tony Benn had reached similar conclusions, and was sympathetic at that time towards the left's entryist tactics of trying to make the labour party more democratic, and its leadership accountable to its membership. Militant in turn used Benn as a useful emblem for their aspirations, I believe, having worked hard to effectively take over the organisation of the hitherto moribund Labour party Young Socialists (LPYS), making its paper, Militant, effectivly their mouthpiece, and through this youth wing recruiting members to the LP more effectively than any other part of the party, excepting of course its trade union membership.

As to why Benn was probably more respected by the populace at large than Militant (though this is anecdotally based on his reception on Any Questions and vox pop responses to some speech he would have made in Parliament, because I don't recall polls being conducted on this question) my guess would be that Militant could be branded Trotskyite extremists by the media, given that they proudly proclaimed this as their heritage, inaccurate though that was by this stage, whereas Benn never ceased to advocate the democratic sovereignty of Parliament, or at any rate The Commons, and believed in the LP remaining a broad church, whereas I think Militant would have been happy to have driven the right out, or their forming the SDP, though (from memory again) they castigated Owen, Williams & co for betrayal and splitting the vote which let Thatcher in.

I think that just about covers it! I'll come back if I think of anything else.

[MrGongGong]

Many people were in favour of nationalisation of industries, in that they didn't want any more or any less nationalisation. .

Whereas now I suspect that a majority of people would be in favour of getting rid of the stupid "competition" in things like water, gas and electricity and replacing it with something owned by us all and with ONE price.

BUT
no-one is going to suggest that as a political idea are they?

[johnb]

...whereas I think Militant would have been happy to have driven the right out, or their forming the SDP, though (from memory again) they castigated Owen, Williams & co for betrayal and splitting the vote which let Thatcher in.

Perhaps you meant "kept Thatcher in power" as Owen, Williams, Jenkins and Rogers only decamped to form the SDP (partly in reaction to Benn's baleful influence and Foot's disastrous leadership) during Thatcher's first term in office.

[Beef Oven!]

Whereas now I suspect that a majority of people would be in favour of getting rid of the stupid "competition" in things like water, gas and electricity and replacing it with something owned by us all and with ONE price.

BUT
no-one is going to suggest that as a political idea are they?

I think that it is unlikely that any political party would have that in their political manifesto. However, there is a chance that UKIP could, because it is not far off their political philosophy. It would get my vote.

[MrGongGong]

I think that it is unlikely that any political party would have that in their political manifesto. However, there is a chance that UKIP could, because it is not far off their political philosophy. It would get my vote.

Nanny state matey

HA ;-)

[Beef Oven!]

Nanny state matey

HA ;-)

The complete opposite. Governments raise revenue from taxes, borrowing from the population and borrowing from banks. That's the easy bit. The hard bit is to decide what to do with the money.

My vote goes to policies that enable people rather than robbing them of basic will-to-live abilities .

You don't want people to go out and dig their own coal and draw their own water, do you?

Harold Wilson was the main man for this type of thinking. A bit before your time though, young man.

[teamsaint]

I used to be into it all, one way or another.

It seems to me that like other areas of life, politics, the way we run our society, has become a spectator sport, which runs for the benefit of a few professionals, while the rest of us cheer or boo on the sidelines.
In a very broad way music, (and especially classical music) has some of the same tendencies. So does sport.
I'm afraid that the political left is subject to the same processes.

Good ideas, and the ability to get them implemented, should not be the preserve of the few.

(Not everything stays the same or gets worse. E publishing has been a huge challenge for the industry, but an opportunity for the many).

[Beef Oven!]

I used to be into it all, one way or another.

It seems to me that like other areas of life, politics, the way we run our society, has become a spectator sport, which runs for the benefit of a few professionals, while the rest of us cheer or boo on the sidelines.
In a very broad way music, (and especially classical music) has some of the same tendencies. So does sport.
I'm afraid that the political left is subject to the same processes.

Good ideas, and the ability to get them implemented, should not be the preserve of the few.

(Not everything stays the same or gets worse. E publishing has been a huge challenge for the industry, but an opportunity for the many).

I don't see politics as left and right these days anyway. I view policies and parties as either good or not good according to whether or not they fall into my views about the world; libertarianism, equality, freedom of the individual, low interference of the state, that sort of thing.

I like stuff by all th parties, including the Greens. They do have some silly ideas, but they have loads of good ideas! The LibDems are a real let-down these days. I used to be a big fan!

[jean]

Great post #6. I'll comment tomorrow.

[Serial_Apologist]

Great post #6. I'll comment tomorrow.

Thanks jean.

In Huw Edwards' overview of Benn's career just now on BBC 2 Hattersley, Kinnock and Ashton showed themselves up nicely as the unapologetic hypocritical shysters they were and always will be, with only Chris Mullen coming to his side. One always forgets about media vultures hovering over prospective graves.....