For those who believe homosexuality can be "cured"

[Serial_Apologist]

Next Tuesday, Channel 4, 10 pm, from Radio Times:

"Undercover Doctor": Cure Me, I'm Gay

DOCUMENTARY in Embarrassing Bodies, Dr Christian Jessen is frank and unflappable. Within minutes of this eye-opening, stomach-turning documentary he's ashen and sobbing. The hunky [EH???] physician has turned reluctant patient, subjecting himself to treatments for homosexuality - or 'same-sex attraction disorder', as purveyors of these so-called cures prefer to say.

"First up is aversion therapy, which was available free on the NHS until the 1980s: he's given a drug that makes him violently sick while a tape recorder [I nearly typed 'rape recorder' there] proclaims 'nobody can love you' over and over again.

"Even more disturbing are the people masquerading as medics who disgnose childhood trauma as the cause of Jessen's 'illness', and a pastor in east London who conducts exorcisms. CLAIRE WEBB".

Unfortunate that Ms Webb rather undermines her otherwise welcome comments by referring to Dr Jessen's physical attributes, but that is hardly Channel 4's fault, and they are to be applauded by ostensibly taking on this subject no holds barred. I think this should be watched, though I myself will not have the stomach for it, and in any case I have the excuse that Tuesdays are my nights out.

Under the item itself, Radio Times says:

"Dr Christian Jessen, who happens to be gay, goes under cover to get access to some of the growing number of therapists and self-styled healers who believe homosexuality is a curable illness. from old-school 'aversion therapy', once practised by the NHS, to modern day techniques such as 'gay rehabilitation' and 'colour therapy', Dr Christian subjects himself to as many techniques as possible to find out whether he can be 'cured'".

This is a quite different version from the usual one of "physician heal thyself" with which we are familiar, and my admiration for this man and the work he does has been enormously enhanced.

[Ferretfancy]

In some ways nothing has changed since I grew up gay in the 1950s, and I shall probably watch the programme that Serial apologist has mentioned, feeling tha anger that it will arouse.
This thread began well, but as usual some of the usual suspects here have hijacked it in order to wage war against each other with stupid invective. Frankly, I'm sometimes sick of the lot of you.

Ferret

[Flosshilde]

This thread began well, but as usual some of the usual suspects here have hijacked it in order to wage war against each other with stupid invective. Frankly, I'm sometimes sick of the lot of you.

Ferret

Couldn't agree more - perhaps the hosts could remove the irrelevant messages from BO, MrGG & ahinton?

I think I wouldn't watch the programme if I had a TV (& won't search it out on iPlayer) because it would porovoke anger that woulkd be largely impotent. At least the (an?) umbrella body for christian counselling organisations has said that it will no longer try to 'cure' homosexuals; unfortunately there are some organisations that are either not members or have declared that they will ignore the ruling who will continue to do so. Since there is no evidence that it works, and also does a lot of damage, it could be included as 'hate crimes'?

[ahinton]

Couldn't agree more - perhaps the hosts could remove the irrelevant messages from BO, MrGG & ahinton?

Mine to which you evidently (and understandably) object have been written solely and entirely in response to others rather than with a view to "hijacking" anything at all; I'd be perfectly happy for the removal of anything from me that is not directly pertinent to the subject under discussion provided that those posts to which I've responded thus are likewise removed.

To return to the thread topic, however, I should perhaps shut up anyway, since I do not believe that homosexuality can be "cured" because it's not a disease and, I think, this is precisely why the majority feel that it cannot be "cured" and should accordingly not be regarded as something amenable to "cure"; that anyone still tries to promote the notion that it nevertheless is a disease and requires bona fide medical research followed by implementation of "curative" measures is at least as sickening as it is untenable (and indeed risible) - one might as well suggest that there is, or could be, a "cure" for being a composer...

[french frank]

Some posts have been moved to a new thread 'Diverted by request'. I've left hybrid posts which are half relevant to the OP.

[Ferretfancy]

Mine to which you evidently (and understandaly) object have been written solely and entirely in response to others rather than with a view to "hijacking" anything at all; I'd be perfectly happy for the removal of anything from me that is not directly pertinent to the subject under discussion provided that those posts to which I've responded thus are likewise removed.

To return to the thread topic, however, I should perhaps shut up anyway, since I do not believe that homosexuality can be "cured" because it's not a disease and, I think, this is precisely why the majority feel that it cannot be "cured" and should accordingly not be regarded as something amenable to "cure"; that anyone still tries to promote the notion that it nevertheless is a disease and requires bona fide medical research followed by implementation of "curative" measures is at least as sickening as it is untenable (and indeed risible) - one might as well suggest that there is, or could be, a "cure" for being a composer...

Perhaps my use of the word "hijacking" was a bit OTT, and I know that you have always responded with careful argument. What worries me about this topic is that in this country we seem to be importing American paranoia, mostly religious in origin. It is an uncomfortable fact that many young people who are having problems with their sexual identity resort to self harm or even suicide every year. They are unlikely to be helped in any way by the "cure" promoting nutters. It's because I care about this issue that I was angered by the unproductive turn that this thread took.

[Sydney Grew]

. . . Dr Christian subjects himself to as many techniques as possible to find out whether he can be 'cured'". . .

Actually heterosexualism is the last resort of the unimaginative. And there are in the modern world so many unimaginative people that heterosexualism has become the norm and homosexualism is (wrongly) regarded as a deviation. There lies the true error or disorder: in the lazy and unimaginative attitude of the heterosexualistic multitude.

The correct cure, then - the logical way - the scientific approach - is for the twisted and pernicious concept "family" to be consigned to the dust-bin of history and forgotten. In the future people will live their much more purposeful lives in same-sex institutions.

[ahinton]

Perhaps my use of the word "hijacking" was a bit OTT, and I know that you have always responded with careful argument. What worries me about this topic is that in this country we seem to be importing American paranoia, mostly religious in origin. It is an uncomfortable fact that many young people who are having problems with their sexual identity resort to self harm or even suicide every year. They are unlikely to be helped in any way by the "cure" promoting nutters. It's because I care about this issue that I was angered by the unproductive turn that this thread took.

Well, the thread was certainly veering well off-topic, so whether or not your use of the term "hijacking" was "a bit OTT", it was still not far off the mark to the extent that homosexuality as a curable(?) disease is the topic and some of the responses ignored this. I agree with what you write here but believe that the adverse effects of such "cure" promotion extend well beyond youth; in fact, it affects the entire homosexual community, even those among it (the vast majority, I imagine) who believe that such notions are as nonsensical and unfounded as they are offensive.

[ahinton]

Actually heterosexualism is the last resort of the unimaginative. And there are in the modern world so many unimaginative people that heterosexualism has become the norm and homosexualism is (wrongly) regarded as a deviation. There lies the true error or disorder: in the lazy and unimaginative attitude of the heterosexualistic multitude.

The correct cure, then - the logical way - the scientific approach - is for the twisted and pernicious concept "family" to be consigned to the dust-bin of history and forgotten. In the future people will live their much more purposeful lives in same-sex institutions.

This is at least as bad as the "cure" nonsense - perhaps even worse. "Heterosexuality" (not "heterosexualism", please) is perfectly normal - for heterosexuals, that is, just as homosexuality is for homosexuals; given also that the extent of animosity between the two is a good deal less than once it was, not least because of changes in laws affecting homosexuals, any suggestion that either group is "unimaginative" merely by reason of belonging to it has no basis in fact and is at least as offensive as any suggestion that homosexuality can (and, even worse, should) be "cured". There is no need for a "cure" of any kind, so there is no such "correct cure", "logical way", "scientific approach" and the rest as you seek to suggest because there is not a problem in the first place. As for segregation of the sexes, that would be utterly inhuman and would not keep the human race going for long; fortunately, however, only a vanishingly small minority of fanatical heterosexuals and homosexuals would advocate such segregation.

[MrGongGong]

Actually heterosexualism is the last resort of the unimaginative. And there are in the modern world so many unimaginative people that heterosexualism has become the norm and homosexualism is (wrongly) regarded as a deviation. There lies the true error or disorder: in the lazy and unimaginative attitude of the heterosexualistic multitude.

The correct cure, then - the logical way - the scientific approach - is for the twisted and pernicious concept "family" to be consigned to the dust-bin of history and forgotten. In the future people will live their much more purposeful lives in same-sex institutions.

Nurse, the screens

[Flosshilde]

This is at least as bad as the "cure" nonsense - perhaps even worse. "Heterosexuality" (not "heterosexualism", please) is perfectly normal - for heterosexuals, that is, just as homosexuality is for homosexuals;

I think that what Sydney is alluding to is the idea (reasonably well founded) that very few people are 100% homo or hetero sexual, and that sexuality is not fixed in time or object. In some circumstances (prison, armed forces, single-sex schools) men (or boys) who might think of themselves as 'heterosexual' will happily engage in same-sex activity. 19th and 20th century thinking about sex and sexuality is hopelessly muddled - other societies & other times were much more relaxed - & probably happier.

As for the screens, I find Syndey's comments (including his first concerning aggression) rather more interesting & germane to the topic than an argument about UKIP.

[Beef Oven!]

I think that what Sydney is alluding to is the idea (reasonably well founded) that very few people are 100% homo or hetero sexual, and that sexuality is not fixed in time or object. In some circumstances (prison, armed forces, single-sex schools) men (or boys) who might think of themselves as 'heterosexual' will happily engage in same-sex activity.

Wishful thinking.

[Sydney Grew]

. . . that would be utterly inhuman and would not keep the human race going for long . . .

Annual encounters around the maypole could be arranged for those asking for it. Perhaps even quarterly.

[amateur51]

Actually heterosexualism is the last resort of the unimaginative. And there are in the modern world so many unimaginative people that heterosexualism has become the norm and homosexualism is (wrongly) regarded as a deviation. There lies the true error or disorder: in the lazy and unimaginative attitude of the heterosexualistic multitude.

The correct cure, then - the logical way - the scientific approach - is for the twisted and pernicious concept "family" to be consigned to the dust-bin of history and forgotten. In the future people will live their much more purposeful lives in same-sex institutions.

I wonder if Sydney has read Marge Piercy's excellent Woman On The Edge Of Time?

[amateur51]

Wishful thinking.

Based on experience and research actually.