Free School Meals

[Beef Oven!]

Try reading what people ACTUALLY say
rather than skimming it and making assumptions

I hadn't realised that you actually say anything.

Crikey! You actually say things!??

I'll watch out for when you say something, from now on!

[french frank]

I am concerned about an overbearing nanny-state robbing people of their instincts and you are prepared to run that risk, or deny that risk.

You are prepared to run the risk of children going without the good meal (which you agree they should have every day) or deny that risk. Your prime concern is that the parents should not develop a 'dependency', even though there is no reason to suppose that because they find it difficult to provide for their children they simply need educating; my prime concern would be that all young children get a good meal every day, regardless of whether the parents are ignorant, feckless, in need of education, unfortunate &c.

As I recall, you were against public service broadcasting being funded out general taxation on the grounds that people were already taxed enough (or some such reason), so I would suggest your prime concern is ultimately the burden on the 'poor' (sc. 'rich') taxpayer.

[ahinton]

Same people who do the means testing and administration now. We have means tested free school meals already. Perhaps you hadn't realised.

Of course - but let's not forget that, lke most things, no means-testing comes free of charge (i.e., in the present context, one might say that there's no such thing as either a free school lunch or the means-testing to ascertain entitlement or otherwise thereto).

That said, how might you hope to guarantee that your taxpayer-funded education programme designed to ensure that those who are charged with looking after children outside school hours do what you'd like them to do will actually work? - and what would you do if the overwhelming evidence of the outcome of implementation of your programme was that it had indeed failed?

[Beef Oven!]

You are prepared to run the risk of children going without the good meal (which you agree they should have every day) or deny that risk. Your prime concern is that the parents should not develop a 'dependency', even though there is no reason to suppose that because they find it difficult to provide for their children they simply need educating; my prime concern would be that all young children get a good meal every day, regardless of whether the parents are ignorant, feckless, in need of education, unfortunate &c.

As I recall, you were against public service broadcasting being funded out general taxation on the grounds that people were already taxed enough (or some such reason), so I would suggest your prime concern is ultimately the burden on the 'poor' (sc. 'rich') taxpayer.

If there is a risk that British children may not get one good meal a day, then one can be provided at school, as has been the case in my living memory and experience as a school-kid during the 1960s and 1970s. The risk that concerns you, is actually well-managed and has been for decades.

If the school meal is not 'good', then we can improve it and make it good. Then the kids will get that meal that we want them to have. The risk is therefore managed and properly mitigated.

What if some families can't afford the price of the school meal (about £1.90 per day, I believe)? the solution is what we do now. Give it free to those that lack the means.

I've told you that in this matter, my concern is about what I see as an ever-increasing nanny-state disempowering people, killing off their instincts, creating people who are dependent on the state or other people for the sorts of things they should be able to do themselves. But you allege that I am insincere in what I say, and what I'm really interested in is protecting rich taxpayers. I'm struggling to understand what I can say to address your arrogance. All I can think of is that I am not shy, and if my prime concern is the rich tax-payer, I would say so.

Clegg thinks he knows better too. I think this is a real problem. The scheme is a very confused one. Is it saying that British families are incapable of feeding their kids? Is it saying they are too poor to feed their kids? Is it saying 'we don't know, we don't care, we're doing it anyway'?

[Beef Oven!]

Of course - but let's not forget that, lke most things, no means-testing comes free of charge (i.e., in the present context, one might say that there's no such thing as either a free school lunch or the means-testing to ascertain entitlement or otherwise thereto).

That said, how might you hope to guarantee that your taxpayer-funded education programme designed to ensure that those who are charged with looking after children outside school hours do what you'd like them to do will actually work? - and what would you do if the overwhelming evidence of the outcome of implementation of your programme was that it had indeed failed?

No need for any of that. We have a system that works. It's called school dinners. If you can't afford them, you get what's called free school dinners. If it's not broken, don't fix it. Move on to something else. Clegg and other LibDem ponces should move on to other issues and use their brain power and middle-class guilty consciences to create solutions that are needed elsewhere. Elderly care is as good a place to start as any.

[ahinton]

If there is a risk that British children may not get one good meal a day, then one can be provided at school, as has been the case in my living memory and experience as a school-kid during the 1960s and 1970s. The risk that concerns you, is actually well-managed and has been for decades.

If the school meal is not 'good', then we can improve it and make it good. Then the kids will get that meal that we want them to have. The risk is therefore managed and properly mitigated.

What if some families can't afford the price of the school meal (about £1.90 per day, I believe)? the solution is what we do now. Give it free to those that lack the means.

I've told you that in this matter, my concern is about what I see as an ever-increasing nanny-state disempowering people, killing off their instincts, creating people who are dependent on the state or other people for the sorts of things they should be able to do themselves. But you allege that I am insincere in what I say, and what I'm really interested in is protecting rich taxpayers. I'm struggling to understand what I can say to address your arrogance. All I can think of is that I am not shy, and if my prime concern is the rich tax-payer, I would say so.

I allege nothing of the kind and what I wrote should not - nor was it intended to - be taken as doing so.

[ahinton]

No need for any of that. We have a system that works. It's called school dinners. If you can't afford them, you get what's called free school dinners. If it's not broken, don't fix it. Move on to something else. Clegg and other LibDem ponces should move on to other issues and use their brain power and middle-class guilty consciences to create solutions that are needed elsewhere. Elderly care is as good a place to start as any.

Tell that to those who also worry about being able to pay for the peripherals that form part of their children's state education! State education is not all "free at the point of delivery", any more than are meals provided at state schools.

[Beef Oven!]

I allege nothing of the kind and what I wrote should not - nor was it intended to - be taken as doing so.

?

[Beef Oven!]

Tell that to those who also worry about being able to pay for the peripherals that form part of their children's state education! State education is not all "free at the point of delivery", any more than are meals provided at state schools.

"Free at the point of delivery school dinners" then, if it pleases you.

[MrGongGong]

If there is a risk that British children may not get one good meal a day, then one can be provided at school, as has been the case in my living memory and experience as a school-kid during the 1960s and 1970s. The risk that concerns you, is actually well-managed and has been for decades.

When did you last set foot in a school ?
Just asking (before I go to one today)

Everyone is an "expert" on schools because we all (well most of us anyway) went to one
in the same way that I am an expert on astronomy because I looked at the moon last night
and also an expert on immunology because I had measles

"common sense" innit ?

[ahinton]

?

You wrote
But you allege that I am insincere in what I say, and what I'm really interested in is protecting rich taxpayers.
and I responded
I allege nothing of the kind and what I wrote should not - nor was it intended to - be taken as doing so.
Simples.

[ahinton]

No need for any of that. We have a system that works. It's called school dinners. If you can't afford them, you get what's called free school dinners. If it's not broken, don't fix it. Move on to something else. Clegg and other LibDem ponces should move on to other issues and use their brain power and middle-class guilty consciences to create solutions that are needed elsewhere. Elderly care is as good a place to start as any.

But the impression that you have given is that you regard such things as part of a dependency culture whose insidious growth you deplore, so it would seem rather less than clear where you're coming from here.

[Beef Oven!]

You wrote
But you allege that I am insincere in what I say, and what I'm really interested in is protecting rich taxpayers.
and I responded
I allege nothing of the kind and what I wrote should not - nor was it intended to - be taken as doing so.
Simples.

I didn't say you had alleged anything, though.

You are not also french frank, are you?

[ahinton]

I didn't say you had alleged anything, though.

You are not also french frank, are you?

I am not French; I am Scots. I do try to be frank where frankness seems appropriate, though (although I'm not claiming to be especially adept at this). That said, one does not have to be either French or Scots to be able to appreciate that there's no such thing as a free lunch.

I do not open multiple accounts on any fora, though.

[Beef Oven!]

When did you last set foot in a school ?
Just asking (before I go to one today)

Everyone is an "expert" on schools because we all (well most of us anyway) went to one
in the same way that I am an expert on astronomy because I looked at the moon last night
and also an expert on immunology because I had measles

"common sense" innit ?

OK, so you're the forum's expert because you hang-out with school kids ? Our very own Paediatric Doctor Doolittle!

FFS, you are unbelievable!


This isn't about schools or GongGong-world. This is about the arrogance of a relatively small number of middle-class tossers, like you and your new friend Clegg, who project their guilty middle-class consciences onto the rest of the population.

When was the last time you went into a school with your eyes open and saw what's actually going on, rather than what you wanted to see?