Not like the rest at all ?

[jean]

They take no notice, though.

[Beef Oven!]

I have to tell you that every Pole I have ever met in this country spoke English far better than I ever spoke Polish when I lived there.

I was trying to keep away from anecdotes, I have too many.

I will say though, the Dutch are utterly amazing in their language abilities.

[Richard Barrett]

I will say though, the Dutch are utterly amazing in their language abilities.

Without wishing to belittle the linguistic achievements of many Dutch people, you'd find a similar level of multilingualism in most of Scandinavia, and most people even in the former "eastern Europe" speak English these days, as well as their own language and often at least one other. The standout nation in this regard actually is the UK, since British people overwhelmingly only speak a single language, and this situation certainly isn't set to improve with current Tory "thinking" on education. I dare say that if and when UKIP acquires something resembling an education policy it isn't going to address this issue either.

[MrGongGong]

You've decided that they are, but most people don't share your view. Certainly most countries in the world think differently to you on this matter.

Since when has received wisdom about what "most people" (have you asked them ?) think been a measure of anything?


Apply it to something significant like music ?
People believe all sorts of nonsense

I'm always a bit worried by statements like this

in order to integrate properly into British life

which are usually a prelude to statements about what the author thinks "Britishness" is and how people SHOULD conform ....... John Major and his Stoke Poges fantasy ? Tebbit and his cricket test and so on........ (wait for the Elgar stirring in the background )

[Beef Oven!]

Without wishing to belittle the linguistic achievements of many Dutch people, you'd find a similar level of multilingualism in most of Scandinavia, and most people even in the former "eastern Europe" speak English these days, as well as their own language and often at least one other. The standout nation in this regard actually is the UK, since British people overwhelmingly only speak a single language, and this situation certainly isn't set to improve with current Tory "thinking" on education. I dare say that if and when UKIP acquires something resembling an education policy it isn't going to address this issue either.

Yes, the Scandinavians seem to be up there with the Dutch. According to my experience, I don't think that most people in eastern Europe speak English, and at least one other language.

And generally speaking, as you move away from the city, it's harder to find people who speak English. I've even had to speak Italian in rural parts of Italy.

[MrGongGong]

And generally speaking,

people who make the most fuss about children in schools having English as a second language have never been to one where that is the case.

It's like a swimming pool
All the noise comes from the shallow end

[Beef Oven!]

people who make the most fuss about children in schools having English as a second language have never been to one where that is the case.

All people, MrGG?

[Beef Oven!]

All the noise comes from the shallow end

You're quite noisy, I'd say.

[Richard Barrett]

According to my experience, I don't think that most people in eastern Europe speak English, and at least one other language.

No, I don't either, I said people often speak a third language. But since I've been living in eastern Europe I've been quite impressed by how often.

Your

Britain (and many other countries) have not been in a constant state of flux, culturally. It's been pretty boring for at least a thousand years, in that regard.

Influence from abroad, as you say, has indeed had its impact on Britain, but the unprecedented level of immigration that Britain is currently experiencing is altogether different.

strikes me as difficult to justify, not to say somewhat hysterical. British culture hasn't changed for a thousand years? And immigration over the last few years has brought about changes on an altogether different level from those produced by things like say the black death, the civil war, colonialism, the industrial revolution and two world wars?

[teamsaint]

people who make the most fuss about children in schools having English as a second language have never been to one where that is the case.

It's like a swimming pool
All the noise comes from the shallow end

You don't have to have been to one to worry about the resources available to deal with that situation.
You might be a teacher, for instance, or a parent with a child starting in such a school, or whatever.

To pretend that changes in society don't bring issues that need dealing with, EG resources in public services, housing needs, transport infrastructure, is something to be wary of.

Many people worry about these things because those with power and influence tell them to worry.
Classic divide and rule.

[jean]

Yes, the Scandinavians seem to be up there with the Dutch.

The Germans are pretty good, too. All of these of course speak langauges which are quite closely related to English, which makes it easier.

According to my experience, I don't think that most people in eastern Europe speak English, and at least one other language.

I don't know what experience that was or when, but in my experience in Poland in the mid-1990s, the country was emerging from a period when the first foreign language they had to learn was Russian. And those in the west of the country where I was also spoke German.

They turned that around pretty quickly, with my help of course. They are fantastic linguists.

And generally speaking, as you move away from the city, it's harder to find people who speak English. I've even had to speak Italian in rural parts of Italy.

Why were you looking for English speakers? Why not speak Italian as a matter of course?
In fact the people you meet in rural Italy are one up on you from the start, because they all speak dialect as well as Italian.

[Anna]

What Mr Batten should have said was: “This is the start of yet another piece of ideologically motivated crackpot 'legislation' from the Daily Express."

On the contrary, The Daily Express is now the official mouthpiece of UKIP because - wait for it - UKIP's new Communications Director is Patrick O'Flynn, the Chief Political Commentator of The Daily Express!! So, the Express can print whatever scaremongering half-truths it wants to, which is pretty scary considering the Express is the newspaper of choice of UKIP supporters.

[teamsaint]

Tick tock, tick tock......

...and all the while , as Nige takes centre stage,governments and big powerful interests get on with their godawful agendas........

[Beef Oven!]

The Germans are pretty good, too. All of these of course speak langauges which are quite closely related to English, which makes it easier.


I don't know what experience that was or when, but in my experience in Poland in the mid-1990s, the country was emerging from a period when the first foreign language they had to learn was Russian. And those in the west of the country where I was also spoke German.

They turned that around pretty quickly, with my help of course. They are fantastic linguists.


Why were you looking for English speakers? Why not speak Italian as a matter of course?
In fact the people you meet in rural Italy are one up on you from the start, because they all speak dialect as well as Italian.

I wasn't looking for English speakers in Italy, it was my attempt at a joke.

Regarding dialect, I assume that they can all speak Italian-proper, I wouldn't know, because they appear, at least to me, to speak to everyone including visitors, in their dialect.

I have only passed through Poland and the only word I picked up was Zwyieck. Which I presume is pronounced J'vyetz?

I know little about the country, although I'm very partial to their 20th century composers. How come they have so many top-notch (IMV) composers?

An interesting country that I should know more about.

[jean]

...it was my attempt at a joke...

Ah, I see!

Perhaps all the rest is, too...tell me it is!