Not like the rest at all ?

[visualnickmos]

Silly comment, no matter what the UKIP are, they are clearly not fascists.

Are you for real or what?????
Then why are they in bed with the ultra-right fascist parties in Europe, and why do they attract the endorsement of BNP w*****s?

[MrGongGong]

Are you for real or what?????
Then why are they in bed with the ultra-right fascist parties in Europe, and why do they attract the endorsement of BNP w*****s?

In spite of their very careful language and attempts to position themselves it really is only a matter of time before they self destruct. Farage has done well with his method acting "pub bore" persona maybe so much that he actually believes that the character he is playing is really him? But many of the other clowns are more am dram than him and the slipping of masks is inevitable.

Dr Strangelove indeed

[Beef Oven!]

Are you for real or what?????
Then why are they in bed with the ultra-right fascist parties in Europe, and why do they attract the endorsement of BNP w*****s?

Please calm down. The UKIP are not fascists. You may not personally agree with all their policies, but that does not mean that you should call them fascists. They attract the 'endorsement' of Labour workers too. So what?

[Richard Barrett]

I don't think anyone is calling the UKIP fascists (although I strongly suspect some of them have tendencies in that direction which they're keeping under wraps for now).

They attract the 'endorsement' of Labour workers too. So what?

Name me another party in the UK which has been endorsed by Nick Griffin (a fascist, lest we forget).

[ahinton]

If any real power were to end up in the hands of Farage and his band of merry men it would be a disaster for the people of Britain.

Indeed - so it's as well that the likelihood of that is vanishingly small, at least for the foreseeable future (insofar as and to the extent to which any future can truly be regarded as foreseeable)...

[Beef Oven!]

I don't think anyone is calling the UKIP fascists (although I strongly suspect some of them have tendencies in that direction which they're keeping under wraps for now).



Name me another party in the UK which has been endorsed by Nick Griffin (a fascist, lest we forget).

You must realise how silly your line of argument is.

[ahinton]

It means for example their alliance in the European Parliament with Poland's "Congress of the New Right" which even Marine Le Pen wants nothing to do with. This has been discussed here earlier. Also UKIP has recently been endorsed by Nick Griffin, which has also been mentioned. Given the current implosion of the far right in the UK, which is to be welcomed of course, who are the fascists going to vote for? UKIP to a man, I would have thought.

It would indeed be hard to imagine for what other UK party such people would vote; OK, it might not be entirely fair to accuse UKIP of having attracted support that it would almost certainly not have chosen overtly to have invited but, if such support nevertheless be forthcoming and declared, UKIP would be wise to consider its position and the attendant no-smoke-without-fire scenario in which it accordingly finds itself, otherwise those of its supporters with non-fascist sympathies might well feel inclined to desert it prontissimo.

[ahinton]

You must realise how silly your line of argument is.

I don't - and perhaps others of us here don't either - so might you care to explain what's supposedly so "silly" about it in words that a simpleton like me might be able to understand? Thanks!

[Richard Barrett]

You must realise how silly your line of argument is.

You must surely realise how patronising your contributions often are. What is silly about it? Fascists like Griffin will be gratified to see the rise of UKIP because it brings quite a few of their cherished objectives into view, shifting the political discourse in the direction of their own vile policies, as for example regarding race and immigration and the whole "one shared British culture for all" rhetoric. You have mentioned yourself the increase in antisemitism in the UK and elsewhere. Is this a coincidence at a time when UKIP and their Euro-bedmates are attracting such attention?

[ahinton]

the whole "one shared British culture for all" rhetoric

Much as I agree with your post here, isn't this particular phenomenon not merely unwelcome and offensive but also frankly absurd? How can there be such a thing in the first place and who can or could decide what it ought to embrace and of what it should comprise? Whilst clearly the notion implies some exclusion and the unpleasantly antio-social divisiveness that would inevitably accompany it, who's to decide what shall be excluded - and what shall be so excluded? The very idea might seem risible were there not some suspicion of underlying danger in it.

[visualnickmos]

Please calm down. The UKIP are not fascists. You may not personally agree with all their policies, but that does not mean that you should call them fascists. They attract the 'endorsement' of Labour workers too. So what?

I am perfectly calm; you seem to assume that when one expresses a view in black and white terms, that they are somehow not calm! Bonkers logic, as ever from you.

I can call them fascists if I so desire, as that is my belief.

As an aside, you seem very keen on describing as 'silly' many of the comments and arguments put forward by various posters on here. Try reading your own.... 'silly' doesn't even come close.....

[Beef Oven!]

I am perfectly calm; you seem to assume that when one expresses a view in black and white terms, that they are somehow not calm! Bonkers logic, as ever from you.

I can call them fascists if I so desire, as that is my belief.

As an aside, you seem very keen on describing as 'silly' many of the comments and arguments put forward by various posters on here. Try reading your own.... 'silly' doesn't even come close.....

What is silly, is following the 'guilty by association' idea. Only witch-hunters still believe in that.

Nick Griffin is a fascist - UKIP is a political party - Nick Griffin likes UKIP - UKIP must be fascists. It's worse than silly! That's why I say people are being silly, or it's silly. People call each-other worse things!

You can call anyone or anything, any name you like. If you believe that UKIP is a fascist party, it can only mean that you do not know what a fascist is; you don't know what the UKIP is, or both.

[MrGongGong]

What is silly, is following the 'guilty by association' idea. Only witch-hunters still believe in that.

Hummm

So if I decided to give the Paul McCartney appreciation society a room in my house, fed them all, gave them lifts to wherever they chose and helped them print their fanzine you wouldn't think I would be in agreement with them then?

Doing the same with the "Polish Congress of the New Right" doesn't imply support in any way at all then?

[ahinton]

What is silly, is following the 'guilty by association' idea. Only witch-hunters still believe in that.

That would indeed be silly but it's not what's happening here.

Nick Griffin is a fascist - UKIP is a political party - Nick Griffin likes UKIP - UKIP must be fascists. It's worse than silly!

If only it were merely "silly"! To begin with, that's not what's being suggested per se, but let's not forget that, just as UKIP is indeed a political party, Nick Griffin used himself to lead one such and has now declared his support for UKIP; I think that this is rather more disturbing than silly.

Again, the fact that no one here has (as far as I can recall) declared either that UKIP is avowedly and of deliberate and wilful intent a fascist party or that all of its supporters are fascists does not of itself undermine the risk that UKIP might - whether or not it wishes to do so or to be seen to do so - attract among its new membership certain people of fascist persuasion and, if Griffin's endorsement of the party's to be believed, this is precisely what's happened already and it would be dangerous - not to say "silly" - to assume that he's an exception in this regard.

[Richard Barrett]

Nick Griffin is a fascist - UKIP is a political party - Nick Griffin likes UKIP - UKIP must be fascists.

I don't see anyone following that particular train of thought. If you think they are, you must be, as you would say, not paying attention; or being silly.

The logic is this: Nick Griffin is a fascist - UKIP is a political party - Nick Griffin likes UKIP - UKIP is the kind of party at least one prominent fascist likes. To which you presumably say "so what?" whereas others might say "wait a minute, why is it the kind of party at least one prominent fascist likes?"