Not like the rest at all ?

[teamsaint]

If indeed they do work - but, are there any mixed economies worthy of the term in existence any more today? I rather gathered they'd been rendered historically redundant by the dominant liberal global ideological moving forwardness we've all been enjoying for the past 40 years or so.

I'm having a glass half full day, S-A.

but fair comment, really.

[Richard Barrett]

The fact is that there is nothing xenophobic about what Nigel said.

That I think depends on the rosiness of the spectacles one uses to look at him. I would certainly interpret his "you know what the difference is" as implying that Romanians are in some sense undesirable human beings relative to Germans. He later expanded on his comment thus: "any normal and fair-minded person would have a perfect right to be concerned if a group of Romanian people suddenly moved in next door" - what the word xenophobia means (where's scottycelt with his dictionary when you need him) is fear of foreigners, of foreignness, and that seems to me to sum up quite precisely what Farage is saying. And remember his outburst on Question Time: "It is completely irresponsible, wrong and stupid to be opening up our doors next January to 29 million people from Romania and Bulgaria" - pure disingenuous xenophobic scaremongering, unless Farage was labouring under the crazed notion that the entire populations of Romania and Bulgaria (numbering in all - yes - 29 million) were planning on moving to the UK.

[Beef Oven!]

I rather gathered they'd been rendered historically redundant by the dominant liberal global ideological moving forwardness we've all been enjoying for the past 40 years or so.

Or by the Soviet frying pans, that if you were lucky to find one, you couldn't pick it up! I always thought that when they commissioned production by unit numbers it was better, because even though they only lasted for two fry-ups, at least you could go and buy another one. Commissioning frying pan production by metric ton was a bad move!

And what about glass production. When they switched to commissioning glass output to square meter from metric ton, you couldn't slam a door in a Soviet office block without every window in the entire block smashing!

Give me entrepreneurial capitalism any-day!!

[Richard Barrett]

Give me entrepreneurial capitalism any-day!!

Faced with two apocryphal anecdotes about the Soviet Union, who could possibly disagree? <eyeroll>

[ahinton]

Have you ever been murdered!!!?

Not even hypothetically. Why? Does it matter (at least in the context of this thread)?

[MrGongGong]

Give me entrepreneurial capitalism any-day!!

All hail the false dichotomy

[Beef Oven!]

That I think depends on the rosiness of the spectacles one uses to look at him. I would certainly interpret his "you know what the difference is" as implying that Romanians are in some sense undesirable human beings relative to Germans. He later expanded on his comment thus: "any normal and fair-minded person would have a perfect right to be concerned if a group of Romanian people suddenly moved in next door" - what the word xenophobia means (where's scottycelt with his dictionary when you need him) is fear of foreigners, of foreignness, and that seems to me to sum up quite precisely what Farage is saying. And remember his outburst on Question Time: "It is completely irresponsible, wrong and stupid to be opening up our doors next January to 29 million people from Romania and Bulgaria" - pure disingenuous xenophobic scaremongering, unless Farage was labouring under the crazed notion that the entire populations of Romania and Bulgaria (numbering in all - yes - 29 million) were planning on moving to the UK.

See the BBC interview.

You'd like it to be a comparison between ''undesirable human beings" [Romanian] and Germans, but it wasn't. It wasn't about Jamaicans, Nigerians, 'blacks and Irish' either. It was about having a realistic discussion about what is going on with open EU borders. It wasn't xenophobic.

Having said that, I do not agree with how he went about the matter and I think he was wrong, he shouldn't have said what he said.

[jean]

Not even hypothetically. Why? Does it matter (at least in the context of this thread)?

If you had, you'd know it was a Romanian wot did it (I surmise).

[Beef Oven!]

Faced with two apocryphal anecdotes about the Soviet Union, who could possibly disagree? <eyeroll>

Most of what people have said about Nigel, seems to be a series of interconnected apocrypha.

[Beef Oven!]

I missed the bit where he told the people who'd been influenced by these newspapers that they really should not llisten to such biased and xenophobic 'news' stories.

Maybe your needs are not at the centre of Nigel's universe.

[jean]

It would be a kindness to anyone who's been misled by the Daily Mail to explain the true state of the case to them, surely?

[Richard Barrett]

Most of what people have said about Nigel, seems to be a series of interconnected apocrypha.

It might be comforting for you to think so but unfortunately there's much evidence from his own mouth about the kind of person he is (and there might have been a lot more if he hadn't had to be dragged away by one of his spin doctors from the James O'Brien radio interview).

For example: Do I think parts of Britain are a foreign land? I got the train the other night, it was rush hour, from Charing Cross. It was a stopper going out and we stopped at London Bridge, New Cross, Hither Green, it was not till we got past Grove Park that I could hear English being audibly spoken in the carriage. Does that make me feel slightly awkward? Yes it does. I wonder what is really going on. I am saying that and I am sure that is a view that will be reflected by three quarters of the population, perhaps even more. I'm not saying that people on trains should be forced to speak English. That's a bloody stupid question. What I am saying is we now have nearly 10 per cent of our schools in this country where English is not the primary language of the homes those children come from. Where does his German wife fit into this? Oh, he tells us, she doesn't speak German on the train. And where does this "nearly 10 per cent" figure come from? (The same place as the "75% of laws" probably.)

His opposition to immigration is not in the end motivated by economic factors. In his own words once more: If you said to me, would I like to see over the next ten years a further five million people come in to Britain and if that happened we’d all be slightly richer, I’d say, I’d rather we weren’t slightly richer, and I’d rather we had communities that were united and where young unemployed British people had a realistic chance of getting a job. I think the social side of this matters more than pure market economics. So basically he just doesn't like foreigners coming over 'ere and contributing to the economy. Or is there some other, non-xenophobic interpretation of this?

[amateur51]

"What I am saying is we now have nearly 10 per cent of our schools in this country where English is not the primary language of the homes those children come from.

Does this include Welsh-speaking homes in Wales, I wonder?

His ignorance of the home lives of a considerable swathe of the UK population is quite staggering.

[Beef Oven!]

It might be comforting for you to think so but unfortunately there's much evidence from his own mouth about the kind of person he is (and there might have been a lot more if he hadn't had to be dragged away by one of his spin doctors from the James O'Brien radio interview).

For example: Do I think parts of Britain are a foreign land? I got the train the other night, it was rush hour, from Charing Cross. It was a stopper going out and we stopped at London Bridge, New Cross, Hither Green, it was not till we got past Grove Park that I could hear English being audibly spoken in the carriage. Does that make me feel slightly awkward? Yes it does. I wonder what is really going on. I am saying that and I am sure that is a view that will be reflected by three quarters of the population, perhaps even more. I'm not saying that people on trains should be forced to speak English. That's a bloody stupid question. What I am saying is we now have nearly 10 per cent of our schools in this country where English is not the primary language of the homes those children come from. Where does his German wife fit into this? Oh, he tells us, she doesn't speak German on the train. And where does this "nearly 10 per cent" figure come from? (The same place as the "75% of laws" probably.)

His opposition to immigration is not in the end motivated by economic factors. In his own words once more: If you said to me, would I like to see over the next ten years a further five million people come in to Britain and if that happened we’d all be slightly richer, I’d say, I’d rather we weren’t slightly richer, and I’d rather we had communities that were united and where young unemployed British people had a realistic chance of getting a job. I think the social side of this matters more than pure market economics. So basically he just doesn't like foreigners coming over 'ere and contributing to the economy. Or is there some other, non-xenophobic interpretation of this?

I do not see this as xenophobic. He is speaking from a British civic concept perspective. You or I may, or may not agree with him, but that's what he's referring to. I can't see what the problem with that is.

Why is it xenophobic, or even surprising that someone might feel, that Britain and a shared British culture should be maintained?

Can you not see that many people would want to maintain Britain's civic national culture, and that would include maintaining the language. Regarding immigration, the issue here would be that Britain will not remain as it is, if the current level of unprecedented immigration continues.

You or I may, or may not agree with this approach, but why should someone not hold these views?

[jean]

Can you not see that many people would want to maintain Britain's civic national culture, and that would include maintaining the language.

Do you seriously believe the language is in danger? Why do you think there is such a demand for English teachers around the world?

What many English people are unaware of is that their monolingualism is actually the exception. Those people speaking their own languages on the train with other native speakers very probably slipped into English when talking to English people.