Not like the rest at all ?

[Richard Barrett]

If you are going to undertake projects like that, you need to use someone who knows what they are doing, it's beyond the realms of lefty amateurs. £1,000 fees? Hmmm.

If you've never had any involvement in organising musical performances outside the EU then I respectfully suggest it's you who doesn't know what they're talking about.

(Just a couple of weeks ago I had to organise a working visa for two weeks in Australia and apart from a fee of about £200 (for one person) and two extensive application forms, I had to provide them with a copy of my contract, my CV, proof that I'd taken out health insurance for the duration of my visit, and last month's bank statement to prove that I could support myself. And this is within the so-called Commonwealth.)

[french frank]

I don't like to be dogmatic and rule out possibilities completely; but I have to confess I can't think of anything just at the moment. I will see if there is something which might do.

Free eye tests and dental checks.

[Beef Oven!]

I don't like to be dogmatic and rule out possibilities completely; but I have to confess I can't think of anything just at the moment. I will see if there is something which might do.

Ok, I'm around today.

[Beef Oven!]

Free eye tests and dental checks.

Try harder.

[Beef Oven!]

If you've never had any involvement in organising musical performances outside the EU then I respectfully suggest it's you who doesn't know what they're talking about.

(Just a couple of weeks ago I had to organise a working visa for two weeks in Australia and apart from a fee of about £200 (for one person) and two extensive application forms, I had to provide them with a copy of my contract, my CV, proof that I'd taken out health insurance for the duration of my visit, and last month's bank statement to prove that I could support myself. And this is within the so-called Commonwealth.)

Equally, with respect, that is hardly an onerous process.

Presumably, you have a copy of your CV and contract (mine are on my hard-drive with paper copies about 2 metres away from where I am typing at the moment, in a draw) and a copy of your last bank statement. When you get your travel insurance, there'll email a document, you can use that.

Two extensive (?) application forms? Is that really an issue?

Administratively speaking, the process that you are fretting and complaining about is a doddle and you should be able to do it in your sleep.

Edit: And in a previous work engagement, I managed an entire project of over 200 UK workers to various firms right across the whole of the USA. Skills assessment, documentation, visas, travel and hotel arrangements, the lot. And moved them around to other employers in the USA when their contracts finished. This went on for two years. And a smaller project to the EAU. And Libya, believe it or not. So I know what I am talking about, and I can do it. It was a doodle and one of the least interesting assignments that I've ever undertaken (almost).

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

if the kippers did not exist the establishment would have to invent them .... the EU and Immigration figure prominently in the publics views as to what is wrong but the public is wrong about what is wrong

Richardson in today's Graun comes close, and gives a house trained version of the Brand analysis

the kippers are the UK version of the gun lobby and Tea Party in the USA with about the same IQ .... has no one spotted just how red neck Nige is ... and dated ... the last throw of the Thatcher generation of bigots ... watch out the next lot will be much worse ....

meanwhile the corporate and city gangsters plunder the tax payer .... unaccountably in the pursuit of the freedom from regulation and tax implicit in the small state ideology of the wunderkinder of the Toffs 'n Oranges

[ahinton]

the kippers are the UK version of the gun lobby and Tea Party in the USA with about the same IQ .... has no one spotted just how red neck Nige is ... and dated ... the last throw of the Thatcher generation of bigots ... watch out the next lot will be much worse ....

Somehow I doubt that Thatcher would have found the UKIP lot other than repellent.

meanwhile the corporate and city gangsters plunder the tax payer .... unaccountably in the pursuit of the freedom from regulation and tax implicit in the small state ideology of the wunderkinder of the Toffs 'n Oranges

But they'll continue to do that whoever's "in charge"!

[Beef Oven!]

if the kippers did not exist the establishment would have to invent them ....

You seem convinced that the Kippers are not an establishment invention.

[ahinton]

You seem convinced that the Kippers are not an establishment invention.

Be that as it may, might you care to identify and explain your view as to what parts of the "establishment" have invented UKIP?

[Beef Oven!]

Be that as it may, might you care to identify and explain your view as to what parts of the "establishment" have invented UKIP?

Why me? I'm not 'MrUKIP', I just vote for them, these days!

[ahinton]

Why me? I'm not 'MrUKIP', I just vote for them, these days!

You nevertheless wrote "You seem convinced that the Kippers are not an establishment invention", which implies that you consider that it could be argued that they are such an invention; if indeed you believe in that possibility, on what grounds do you do so? That's all that I asked!

[MrGongGong]

If you are going to undertake projects like that, you need to use someone who knows what they are doing, it's beyond the realms of lefty amateurs. £1,000 fees? Hmmm.

Maybe you should take that up with the well known London Orchestra that I went with
do the maths

[Beef Oven!]

Maybe you should take that up with the well known London Orchestra that I went with
do the maths

You went with a flippin' orchestra!!!!??? What did you expect the fees to be, you frikkin donut!!!?????

I'm surprised we get any music done overseas with you thinking the application form is "complex", £1,000 is expensive for an orchestra, and RB flummoxed because he's got to staple a CV and a cover-note to the form!

Please tell me you're pulling my leg!

[MrGongGong]

You went with a flippin' orchestra!!!!??? What did you expect the fees to be, you frikkin donut!!!?????

I'm surprised we get any music done overseas with you thinking the application form is "complex", £1,000 is expensive for an orchestra, and RB flummoxed because he's got to staple a CV and a cover-note to the form!

Please tell me you're pulling my leg!

You really have no idea whatsoever of the way in which music happens do you
If every UK orchestra and ensemble had to pay that for every gig in the rest of Europe ?
So the economic benefits of leaving the EU ?
hummmmm you really haven't thought this one through have you

Maybe for you rich folks who can afford to chuck money about for foreign jaunts the world is very different

no idea whatsoever

[Beef Oven!]

You really have no idea whatsoever of the way in which music happens do you
If every UK orchestra and ensemble had to pay that for every gig in the rest of Europe ?
So the economic benefits of leaving the EU ?
hummmmm you really haven't thought this one through have you

Maybe for you rich folks who can afford to chuck money about for foreign jaunts the world is very different

no idea whatsoever

1) I'm beginning to think that you don't know how music happens

2) Why on Earth would we need to set the fees high in Europe? We never did before.

3) ?

4) I have not needed to think it through because there is no problem

5) I'm not rich, or even well-off

6) You can talk