Not like the rest at all ?

[MrGongGong]

i mean things like this

http://www.culturefund.eu/projects/composing-with-sounds-widening-electroacoustic-music-participation

[Beef Oven!]

i mean things like this

http://www.culturefund.eu/projects/c...-participation

I know exactly what you mean, but who cares? Who is ever going to care?

[MrGongGong]

I know exactly what you mean, but who cares? Who is ever going to care?

Music is more important than silly little political games by people who seem to enjoy being angry
today we made some music using live electronics in a school for children with profound and multiple disabilities (PMLD) it moved us all and we were changed by it.

Without feeling connected we end up sad and lonely.
When I speak with people 30 years younger than myself they often talk about feeling part of a European Culture. Your mates in the UKIP (is that ok ?) seek to destroy that in the name of spurious "choice" that (as you yourself point out) means that even if the UK left the EU the same old rich men would decide what happens.

[Beef Oven!]

Music is more important than silly little political games by people who seem to enjoy being angry
today we made some music using live electronics in a school for children with profound and multiple disabilities (PMLD) it moved us all and we were changed by it.

Without feeling connected we end up sad and lonely.
When I speak with people 30 years younger than myself they often talk about feeling part of a European Culture. Your mates in the UKIP (is that ok ?) seek to destroy that in the name of spurious "choice" that (as you yourself point out) means that even if the UK left the EU the same old rich men would decide what happens.

You have totally misunderstood. Being anti-EU, does not mean that people are anti-Europe. Love Europe-Hate the EU. I love Europe and can converse in more European languages than many pro-EU people, 50% of the blood running through my body is continental European blood! I support Italy!! And voted for the UKIP!!

Build better and closer ties with Europe. But let's not have an elitist super-class coining it in and mugging us off (RB puts it better in an earlier post).

Yes to Europe, no to a pan-European dictatorship elite.

[MrGongGong]

You have totally misunderstood. Being anti-EU, does not mean that people are anti-Europe. Love Europe-Hate the EU. I love Europe and can converse in more European languages than many pro-EU people, 50% of the blood running through my body is continental European blood! I support Italy!! And voted for the UKIP!!

Build better and closer ties with Europe. But let's not have an elitist super-class coining it in and mugging us off (RB puts it better in an earlier post).

Yes to Europe, no to a pan-European dictatorship elite.

But that's NOT what UKIP want at all
they want to disengage from ALL of it
the ECHR
the EU cultural programmes
all of it, cut the ties with Europe that you seem to like so much

restrict movement so people can't easily work in other European countries
make it necessary to get a Visa to go to France for the weekend and so on

There are many things wrong with the EU
but taking your ball inside isn't the way to deal with them

When they bother to turn up at all the new UKIP MEP's will be rude, obstructive and vote against everything regardless of whether it is in the interests of the citizens of the UK (or elephants !)

If what you say you want is true, you have hitched your wagon to the wrong horse

You seem quite happy with an English "dictatorship elite"

[Beef Oven!]

But that's NOT what UKIP want at all
they want to disengage from ALL of it
the ECHR
the EU cultural programmes
all of it, cut the ties with Europe that you seem to like so much

restrict movement so people can't easily work in other European countries
make it necessary to get a Visa to go to France for the weekend and so on

There are many things wrong with the EU
but taking your ball inside isn't the way to deal with them

When they bother to turn up at all the new UKIP MEP's will be rude, obstructive and vote against everything regardless of whether it is in the interests of the citizens of the UK (or elephants !)

If what you say you want is true, you have hitched your wagon to the wrong horse

You seem quite happy with an English "dictatorship elite"

The UKIP does not want to disengage with all of it, just the EU dictatorship.

You are either a scaremonger or ignorant of the truth.

I never needed a visa the repeated times I've visited loads of different European countries as an adult, or even as a kid in the 1960s.

When I worked in Italy in the 1980s, I don't even remember the permit situation, that's how easy it was.

'Freedom of movement' is the term big business uses for the 'easy availability of cheap labour, when needed', no questions asked.

You've been mugged off, bro'.

[MrGongGong]

I guess you can use the warp drive to go back in time
I thought part of the objection was that the EU had "porous" borders ?
I LIKE being able to work everywhere in the EU
If we really do leave the EU it's only really BIG businesses that will be able to afford to do that

[Beef Oven!]

I guess you can use the warp drive to go back in time
I thought part of the objection was that the EU had "porous" borders ?
I LIKE being able to work everywhere in the EU
If we really do leave the EU it's only really BIG businesses that will be able to afford to do that

I like travelling all over Europe and working, if there's a job for me, should I want to work. When did this crap that it's only been possible with the EU, come about?

Stop deliberately misleading people. Or lying, whatever.

[jean]

I never needed a visa the repeated times I've visited loads of different European countries as an adult, or even as a kid in the 1960s.

Are you sure about that?

I had to have a visa to work in Poland in the 1990s. Visas for ex-USSR are unbearably complicated even now. And you have to have a tourist visa to visit Turkey.

When I worked in Italy in the 1980s, I don't even remember the permit situation, that's how easy it was.

They're quite keen on the Permesso di soggiorno even now, though they can't actually prevent you from having one if you're an EU citizen.

I worked in Poland with an American who had got a job in France, but couldn't take it because they wouldn't give him a work visa.

[Beef Oven!]

Are you sure about that?

I had to have a visa to work in Poland in the 1990s. Visas for ex-USSR are unbearably complicated even now. And you have to have a tourist visa to visit Turkey.

They're quite keen on the Permesso di soggiorno even now, though the can't actually prevent you from having one if you're an EU citizen.

I worked in Poland with an American who had got a job in France, but then they wouldn't give him a visa.

I don't recall ever needing a visa, including in Yugoslavia (all of it).

I could be wrong, but I only remember using a British passport. 1970s and 1980s. In the 60s I was a kid and it's too far back to remember.

What is it that you are thinking?

Btw, as you know, getting a tourist visa in Turkey consists of handing a £20 note to the copper in the kiosk, adjacent to passport control, getting your passport stamped, then going through passport control and waiting for your luggage.

[Anna]

I like travelling all over Europe and working, if there's a job for me, should I want to work. When did this crap that it's only been possible with the EU, come about?

Stop deliberately misleading people. Or lying, whatever.

Because, if we leave the EU there is no longer freedom of movement between Member States for UK citizens without the rigmarole of visas, permits, etc. Ditto our closing our borders to all and sundry.
Edit: Because in 1960 we were part of EFTA and from 1972 part of the EEC as it was called then, that's why you could travel freely and work.

[Beef Oven!]

Because, if we leave the EU there is no longer freedom of movement between Member States for UK citizens without the rigmarole of visas, permits, etc. Ditto our closing our borders to all and sundry.
Edit: Because in 1960 we were part of EFTA and from 1972 part of the EEC as it was called then, that's why you could travel freely and work.

From which month in 1972 were we part of the EEC?

Are you sure that I was able to travel all over Yugoslavia because we were all in the EEC in the 1970s?

What's so hard about getting a visa anyway? Why is it a rigmarole?

I got an indefinite entry visa for the USA in 1974. It was like falling off a log!

[Anna]

From which month in 1972 were we part of the EEC?

Are you sure that I was able to travel all over Yugoslavia because we were all in the EEC in the 1970s?

What's so hard about getting a visa anyway? Why is it a rigmarole?

I got an indefinite entry visa for the USA in 1974. It was like falling off a log!

My mistake, the UK were full members lst Jan 1973, it was the referendum to join in 1972 I think.
I don't know about Yugoslavia, it's not in Europe anyway. They were probably grateful you visited them and spent money there. :-)
If the UK imposes restrictions on people travelling freely here don't you think EU countries would do the same? (France probably would raise barriers, they never wanted us to join in the first place!)

[Flosshilde]

the answer is to roll-back the ignorance and prejudice concerning what constitutes music and art,

not piss about with funding little projects.

Don't you think that the latter might help with the former, and help change

the narrow-mindedness of people.

?

[Beef Oven!]

My mistake, the UK were full members lst Jan 1973, it was the referendum to join in 1972 I think.
I don't know about Yugoslavia, it's not in Europe anyway. They were probably grateful you visited them and spent money there. :-)
If the UK imposes restrictions on people travelling freely here don't you think EU countries would do the same? (France probably would raise barriers, they never wanted us to join in the first place!)

I was in a cafe in Yugoslavia in the 70s and I had my feet up on a chair, when the waiter pushed my feet off and told me to sit up straight. Next thing Willy Brandt, leader of the German SDP and former German Chancellor walked in with his entourage!

I can't say for sure, but I reckon he thought he was in Europe. If I'd have known we were going to have this conversation, I'd have asked him if he had a visa!

I have no idea to this day what he was doing in some little cafe in northern Yugoslavia.