Growing your own - is it worth it?

[Dave2002]

I've been trying to get some flower seedlings going. Seems a waste of time, since as soon as I put them out they get attacked by slugs and snails. I have put down pellets which reduces the problem considerably, but I would expect vegetables to be tasty to slugs and snails too. I may discover that later on.

I have managed to stabilise the situation recently, but what with too much sun, too little sun, too hot, too cold, too little water, too much water plus other hazards there are times when I feel like giving up and going to live in a city (flat, or house with a very small garden - no doubt laid to gravel or concrete) where nobody would care about having a garden.

However, the potatoes are looking more hopeful.

[jean]

...there are times when I feel like giving up and going to live in a city (flat, or house with a very small garden - no doubt laid to gravel or concrete) where nobody would care about having a garden...

Oh but they do!

That's why our allotment site has a waiting list of over 80.

[doversoul1]

umslopogaas
It’s definitely not for food, as the bean was always left intact. I can only think it as a kind of sport they play (do birds play like cats do?). I have fortified the runner beans with canes and wire mesh but I know the more I try, the more they enjoy…

Anna
I am surprised that your wild strawberries are eatable, let alone nice. The ones that invade all over my garden are even ignored by birds. Mind you, they do have raspberries, red and black currents and proper strawberries. I used to grow alpine strawberries which are cultivated wild strawberries, if this makes sense. And if you didn’t like dwarf beans, you could try Cobra, climbing ‘French’ beans. You can grow them with your runner beans and I think they have much more flavour than dwarf type.

Dave
One of slugs’ favourite plants is Marigold. I don’t think they are too bothered about whether they are eating vegetable or flower.

[french frank]

The tiny runner pods are just beginning to appear - and it's not even July yet!

Two impressions: that there are going to be good harvests and I'm a bit worried about the small number of bees around after something of a recovery in the last couple of years.

[umslopogaas]

About another week to the first pea harvest, and the runners are starting to flower (no beans visible yet), but something (mice? - cant have been rabbits, they are fenced out) has bitten the tops off most of the french beans.

Re. bees, there are hardly any honey bees here, I dont think anyone in the area keeps them, but there are lots of bumble bees working away out there, so pollination is happening OK.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The tiny runner pods are just beginning to appear - and it's not even July yet!

We'll have to wait for climate change to really kick in before we see that up here.

[french frank]

We'll have to wait for climate change to really kick in before we see that up here.

The packet says harvest in August and September. I don't think there will be much harvesting before August. Pea harvest has been in full flow for a couple of weeks.

My nepeta plants have been covered in bumble bees in the past couple of years - I've counted 13 on one plant. But they're down to one or two this year and a couple of what I take to be honey bees.

[hedgehog]

My nepeta plants have ..... a couple of what I take to be honey bees.

They could bee, or otherwise are hover flies.

P.S.
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-25656283 except ignore the link to pesticides because umslopogaas says pesticides are OK (disclaimer "if used according to instructions" ha ha ha ah ah aye there's the rub, nobody does).

[french frank]

They could bee, or otherwise are hover flies.

No, definitely bees, just not bumblebees (I have my FoE cards and chart to check) - though there was a hover fly this morning. The Solitary Bee (Andrena haemorrhoa) is more like the honey bee, but not stripey, so it could have been that.

On inspection, first weeny tomato is showing - outside in a pot (I don't have a greenhouse). The past week has been really hot down here. Yesterday I went down to breakfast at 7am and felt so hot and sweaty I thought I was ill - but it was already 22 degrees in the house which is usually dark and cool. I've been watering twice a day and the backyard is beginning to resemble a rainforest.

[umslopogaas]

hedgehog #188, it is possible to use pesticides unsafely, but you'd have to try quite hard, because unless you've got the necessary certificates to allow you to use the professional products (in which case you'd know better than to misuse them), you can only buy a very limited range of so called 'amateur' products. These are on sale to the general public because generally they are so safe even the most dimwitted member of the g p cant do much damage with them.

Generally, amateur fungicides are very safe. Amateur insecticides could kill bees if misused, and could kill you if you drank them, but I doubt you could get a lethal dose down your throat without throwing up. Amateur herbicides like glyphosate will kill the wrong plant if applied to it, but again, you could hardly do that accidentally unless you were foolish enough to spray when it was windy.

I always reply to the "pesticides are poisoning the planet" brigade that of course pesticides are poisons, they wouldnt work if they werent, but that doesnt mean you cant use them safely. After all, pharmaceuticals are also poisons, but you dont refuse to take two paracetamol to cure a headache because twenty will kill you.

Apologies if I've posted these thoughts before, they are not new but I cant remember where I last aired them.

[gradus]

Well said, after putting all the effort into growing/planting, why deny your plants safe, sensible protection.

[doversoul1]

P.S.
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-25656283 except ignore the link to pesticides because umslopogaas says pesticides are OK (disclaimer "if used according to instructions" ha ha ha ah ah aye there's the rub, nobody does).

I think you should read this as a theory on paper that has no practical link with actual activities of honeybees. In reality, bees are not necessarily (probably unlikely to be) exposed to the two chemicals simultaneously. Also, if significant number of bees were affected, the production of honey would drop, which has not been the case as far as I am aware. If you find that there is less British honey available in recent years, that is because many British beekeepers have lost their bees. The widespread destruction of bee colonies in the UK and elsewhere is mainly the result of the combination of a disease caused by verroa and unusual or extreme winter weather.

As for pesticides in the garden, unless you spray them directly with neat greenfly killer, honeybees or any other pollinating insects, let alone birds can’t possibly be affected.

[french frank]

It's growth inhibitors I need. This morning I found one of the broad bean plants was taller than me and that is just UNACCEPTABLE!

[umslopogaas]

Accept it with pride, ff, if your beans are taller than you, you must have done things right. And you are going to harvest a lot of beans, it'll be a windy night.

[hedgehog]

umslopogaas - I appreciate the point you are making, however I constantly see at my allotment that people DON'T follow the instructions. There is a ditch that runs along the allotments.

Anybody spraying anything close to it (and they do) and you see the vapours wafting onto the water, Most fungicides and pesticides available to amateurs and glyphosphate say specifically not to let the stuff into water ways and warn of the extreme toxicity to water dwelling creatures and in a lot of cases amphibians - there used to be a lot of them around the allotments, they are becoming increasingly rare. I have a separate pond away from the ditch where they can breed however and have them hopping all over my allotment, as well as salamanders in the soil. I'm not going to risk spray getting onto them, but yeah, most people don't care, I'm just a stupid amphibian-hugger.

The studies have been done to show glyphosphate residues are present in soya after harvest. The long term effects are not known. I'm not saying that this means that it shouldn't be used, I'm just saying that there is reason enough to be vigilant on these things.

I constantly see people using glyphosphate inappropriately - that is the problem. It's always been the problem.

I've read the instructions for the current consumer product for potato blight - as you say it's a preventative and there is a clear limit as to how much can be sprayed in a single season - worked out at three sprayings at 7 - 10 day interval. Granted if applied at exactly the right time, that should insure a harvest of some sort, but not that the plants won't get blight at all. In addition a wide range of vegetables can't be planted for 60 days after the last spray & no root crops to be planted for 120 days after use. 4 months! Well that actually makes the stuff not all that useful for a small allotment imo, unless one ignores the directions. So how many people will then decide to ignore the directions and use it anyway? Not the company's fault then if there then are problems, of course. I however would argue that anything used that then requires a rest of 4 months before planting a wide range of other vegetables is of a dubious nature, to say the least. (This stuff too, is toxic to water dwelling creatures).

I don't think all these people are dim-witted - they just ignore the directions. They probably won't be harming themselves, but that other living organisms won't be - can you guarantee me that?


Are you telling me that every substance from DDT onwards that has subsequently been banned was actually safe and was always safely used? That there have been no pesticides, fungicides, herbicides taken off the market after studies into long term effects have shown they aren't safe? Safe for wildlife that doesn't know the stuff can't be consumed for however many days after spraying?

Or that all the people using these substances were dim-witted?