Growing your own - is it worth it?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

And Eine Alpensinfonie, good luck, it will be worth the effort, but dont worry too much about the accuracy, gardening in my experience is not an exact science and certainly not carried out to two decimal places of inches! If the construction doesnt quite look square so much the better, it blends in better with a rustic look, doncha think?

To quote your own comment about MrGG - "Wise advice"!

[gurnemanz]

I don't grow a lot of veg but whatever else I leave out in any year I always grow spuds. Harvesting them is like digging for treasure and I love the idea of them going straight from the soil to the cooking pot. This year I grew Marmande beef tomatoes (outside in the soil). They are not easily available in the shops. Thanks to the hot July, they have been fantastic. I would also recommend the Cobra climbing bean which I grew for the first time this year.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Let's hope not. I'm in the middle of building a raised bed (39.37 inches in height) using concrete blocks. It isn't the weight of the blocks that's the problem. It's digging the trench for the foundations. I've got mountains of subsoil everywhere.

Now that it's finished, and is blatant overkill, I've named the asparagus bed "Alpen's Folly". Wonderful deep topsoil and well drained.

[umslopogaas]

EA, congratulations and thanks for bringing this thread back to life. Not sure what you are planning to grow in this raised bed, but if it is asparagus, a word of warning. I have a similar raised bed where I intend to grow asparagus. Being mean, I raised some plants from seed rather than buying crowns. I planted them out and they all died from frost overwinter. I repeated the performance the following year and that lot got frosted too. In some perplexity, because it is supposed to be fully hardy, I rang the RHS. They suggested that it may not be frost hardy when young and this of course wouldnt bother most gardeners because they plant 3 - 4 year old crowns, not one year old seedlings. So, I have had a third try, in pots, but am bringing them all under cover for the winter.

If you do intend to use the bed for a perennial that must endure the winter out of doors, a related point is that if you do not fill the bed right up to the rim with soil, you are in danger of creating a frost trap. Freezing air will accumulate, rather than flowing away, and that might be too much for the plants. This only matters, of course, if you intend to overwinter plants in the bed.

[amateur51]

Impressive stuff. I've thought of growing some decent tomatoes this coming Summer - Marmande taste good but tend to be huge. Does anyone have any experience of these or others to recommend? What about smaller, heavier cropping tomatoes? Pots or bags?

Yours in need of advice

A Beginner

[Flosshilde]

Cherry tomatoes might be good. Lovely to pluck a few off the plant while you are lazing in the sun & pop them in your mouth - nearly as sweet as grapes & much better for you than sweets (especially for you, ams ).

[amateur51]

Cherry tomatoes might be good. Lovely to pluck a few off the plant while you are lazing in the sun & pop them in your mouth - nearly as sweet as grapes & much better for you than sweets (especially for you, ams ).

Sound thinking Flossie - any special sorts to recommend? I do like a good contrast between sweetness and acidity in a tomato, me

[umslopogaas]

I prefer the little "cherry" tomatoes like 'Gardeners' Delight'. It is most convenient to buy plants, but you get a much wider choice if you raise from seed, and in my experience tomato seeds germinate without problems. If you really want a choice, request a seed catalogue from Plant World Seeds in S. Devon (www.plant-world-seeds.com Tel. 01803 872939). Their 2014 catalogue lists 58 varieties including 'Super Marmande'. They describe it as 'semi-bush', which means it would be easier to grow than the ones that have to be trained as cordons.

You can grow them in growbags or large pots, under glass or outside once there is no danger of frost. You have to pay close attention to watering, bags in particular dry out very quickly in hot weather, so if you want to go away during the growing season be sure to co-opt the neighbours for watering duty. As a 'semi-bush' 'Super Marmande' may need some canes for support, which is a fiddle if you are growing in bags on a hard surface, because the bags dont have enough depth of soil to hold the canes upright: a bit of wigwam building would be called for.

Another one in PW Seeds catalogue that would be worth considering is 'Ferline F1'. This is said to have a good flavour and to be resistant to three of the most important diseases. Since two of these are soil-borne, that would be particularly useful if you are growing in open soil (growbags and garden centre compost should be disease-free). The third disease, blight, is airborne and has finished off my tomatoes on more than one occasion. Last time I looked you could still buy copper fungicide to apply as a protectant spray, which is quite effective, but does mean you have to buy a sprayer. 'Ferline F1' is described as a cordon, which means the growth habit is a tall stem with side branches removed, and will need support: more wigwam making would be called for.

If you are setting out on this for the first time, that's quite a lot of expense! Growbags, seeds (dont bother to buy seed trays, lots of supermarket plastic food packaging can be adapted), fertiliser, canes, fungicides, sprayers. Most of this stuff lasts, so in future years it will just be bags and seeds.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

EA, congratulations and thanks for bringing this thread back to life. Not sure what you are planning to grow in this raised bed, but if it is asparagus, a word of warning. I have a similar raised bed where I intend to grow asparagus. Being mean, I raised some plants from seed rather than buying crowns. I planted them out and they all died from frost overwinter. I repeated the performance the following year and that lot got frosted too. In some perplexity, because it is supposed to be fully hardy, I rang the RHS. They suggested that it may not be frost hardy when young and this of course wouldnt bother most gardeners because they plant 3 - 4 year old crowns, not one year old seedlings. So, I have had a third try, in pots, but am bringing them all under cover for the winter.

If you do intend to use the bed for a perennial that must endure the winter out of doors, a related point is that if you do not fill the bed right up to the rim with soil, you are in danger of creating a frost trap. Freezing air will accumulate, rather than flowing away, and that might be too much for the plants. This only matters, of course, if you intend to overwinter plants in the bed.

It is asparagus that we hoping to grow, and I will note your suggestions. We often use fleece to reduce the effects of frost here oop north.

[amateur51]

I prefer the little "cherry" tomatoes like 'Gardeners' Delight'. It is most convenient to buy plants, but you get a much wider choice if you raise from seed, and in my experience tomato seeds germinate without problems. If you really want a choice, request a seed catalogue from Plant World Seeds in S. Devon (www.plant-world-seeds.com Tel. 01803 872939). Their 2014 catalogue lists 58 varieties including 'Super Marmande'. They describe it as 'semi-bush', which means it would be easier to grow than the ones that have to be trained as cordons.

You can grow them in growbags or large pots, under glass or outside once there is no danger of frost. You have to pay close attention to watering, bags in particular dry out very quickly in hot weather, so if you want to go away during the growing season be sure to co-opt the neighbours for watering duty. As a 'semi-bush' 'Super Marmande' may need some canes for support, which is a fiddle if you are growing in bags on a hard surface, because the bags dont have enough depth of soil to hold the canes upright: a bit of wigwam building would be called for.

Another one in PW Seeds catalogue that would be worth considering is 'Ferline F1'. This is said to have a good flavour and to be resistant to three of the most important diseases. Since two of these are soil-borne, that would be particularly useful if you are growing in open soil (growbags and garden centre compost should be disease-free). The third disease, blight, is airborne and has finished off my tomatoes on more than one occasion. Last time I looked you could still buy copper fungicide to apply as a protectant spray, which is quite effective, but does mean you have to buy a sprayer. 'Ferline F1' is described as a cordon, which means the growth habit is a tall stem with side branches removed, and will need support: more wigwam making would be called for.

If you are setting out on this for the first time, that's quite a lot of expense! Growbags, seeds (dont bother to buy seed trays, lots of supermarket plastic food packaging can be adapted), fertiliser, canes, fungicides, sprayers. Most of this stuff lasts, so in future years it will just be bags and seeds.

Great advice, much appreciated umslopogaas!

Do you have any experience of planting marigoldss nearby as companion plants to deal with some bugs? Sounds a lovely idera, but ...

Come on Spring, let's being having you!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

We had a good crop of Christmas potatoes (Charlottes) this year. In previous years, we've tried growing them in bags and the results were dire, with potatoes no larger than a pea. But this year, weput them in the ground in mid-August and the plants flourished and then died down and disappeared. Undeterred, I dug them up on Christmas Eve, we had enough for several days. Delicious too.

[umslopogaas]

#40, Ams, hmm, companion planting: I've done a quick bit of referencing to remind myself. I had a look in Buczacki and Harris 'Collins Pests, Diseases and Disorders of Garden Plants'. They say that African and French marigolds (Tagetes) will reduce root-lesion nematode (Pratylenchus spp.) populations in the soil - whether this reduction amounts to acceptable control is a different matter. They then state "Hence the often publicised but inaccurate claim that Tagetes will control all eelworms." They go through the biology and control of all the major nematode pests of garden plants, and Pratylenchus spp. are the only ones where this form of control is mentioned.

To the best of my knowledge, there are no effective chemical controls available to gardeners to control these beasts in the soil. You could, I suppose, soak the soil in Jeyes Fluid, but that would smell terrible, take ages to evaporate and may well be illegal (I dont have a tin to hand to check). There are effective chemical soil sterilants, but they arent available to amateur gardeners. Steam sterilisation would work, but would need specialist contractors and would be expensive.

The problem with companion planting is not that it is useless, but that the claims made for its usefulness are wildly exaggerated. This is because of the organic fraternity. If you reject the most effective form of pest control, chemical pesticides, then you have to fall back on non-chemical measures. Biological control (which is what I once did for a living) is excellent under certain circumstances, but is often best against introduced pests, whereas nematodes are native. So if you havent got an effective biological control and you wont use a chemical one, you are likely to seize wildly on any other possibility. Well, there is no harm in trying, at least they look colourful.

[Flosshilde]

Sound thinking Flossie - any special sorts to recommend? I do like a good contrast between sweetness and acidity in a tomato, me

I'm afraid I don't have any knowledge of which varieties are best; as ums says, if you buy plants (the easiest way) you are restricted to the plants the commercial nurseries/garden centres sell; if you sow your own seeds you have a much wider choice. if you do the latter you should send of for some seed catalogues & read up on the different varieties.

[Flosshilde]

canes for support, which is a fiddle if you are growing in bags on a hard surface, because the bags dont have enough depth of soil to hold the canes upright:

I think that you can get special holders that slide under growbags to hold the canes - obviously this will add to the expence, but they will be useable in following years.

Re companion planting - I think ums is being unduly pessimistic & dismissive about organic gardening generally. There will be plenty of information on-line & possibly in your local library (if you still have one - isn't Willesden in Brent?).

[gradus]

Re toms, I'd suggest that you start with the blight resistant varieties such as Ferline - though they'll get quite big, there are others that are small and tasty, see Thompson and Morgan catalogue for seeds. Toms are dead easy to grow from seeds, just folllow the planting instructions on the packet, a light windowsill is fine to get them to germinate, once they've produced the first leaves you can put them outside ideally against a sunny wall or a sheltered sunny spot agian ideally with a little protection such as a cloche or something transparent that keeps the wind off. I wouldn't worry too much about marigolds and companion planting if you're only growing a handful of plants but if you want them Tand M and other seedsmen sell marigolds for the purpose.