Growing your own - is it worth it?

[ardcarp]

Thanks for posting that insight into Malta's rabbits. Rather along the lines of 'What have the Phoenicians ever done for us?'
I guess we're wondering off topic a bit....but 'growing your own' could apply to rabbits I suppose.

[oddoneout]

Thanks for posting that insight into Malta's rabbits. Rather along the lines of 'What have the Phoenicians ever done for us?'
I guess we're wondering off topic a bit....but 'growing your own' could apply to rabbits I suppose.

Indeed and when my children were young a couple of their friends had backyard (for the pot) rabbit hutches. Also for some growing their own, rabbits come into the same category as pigeons - pests to be dealt with somehow. Speaking of pests there was evidence of mole activity in my veg plot a couple of days ago which I must keep an eye on as the wet weather will have got the worms up again.
And mention of moles is another circular connection.The original mention of Malta had reminded me of school friends who were part of the GCHQ community and had been posted on Malta at various times...

[gurnemanz]

Don't mention r*****s on Portland

[oddoneout]

What I at first thought was simply overexuberance at the improved growing conditions(rain and warmth) now looks as if it might be something distinctly less positive. The leaves on my tomato plants have got very big and the stalks have got somewhat fasciated, way beyond the occasional incidence I have some years, and the flattened stalks now have small leaves and embryo shoots growing out of them. It all points to weedkiller damage, specifically aminopyralid, and having looked at the beans in the next bed I can see the leaves there are blistered and some have gone blotchy. I didn't notice it earlier partly because it's not so obvious and also because the weather we've had, including a damaging hailstorm about 3 weeks ago, have left a lot of plants with 'odd' foliage.
The question is 'why, and from where? I haven't used weedkiller, and I haven't brought in anything that might contain contaminated matter. The next door neighbour has been using weedkiller but the timings don't fit and in any case as far as I know it's glyphosate she's been using. Also the pattern of plants affected suggests soil not air origin, although that doesn't mean it isn't airborne in origin, and I suppose I'm going to have to ask what she has been using, and look it up - which I know isn't going to go down well even if I don't mention the problem I've got.
In theory the pyralid problem has been dealt with but I gather that in fact it not only still exists but has got worse, not least because material from equestrian sources is now contaminated even though that weedkiller isn't licensed for use with horses. If I had got manure or green waste products and used them this year that would possibly explain the matter, but I haven't. In fact I haven't done that at all in this garden, so it's not even that there is residue from a previous year(it takes a long time to break down unless dug into the soil - composting isn't the solution).
Someone 3 doors down says she has some damage, but I know she has been buying in all sorts of compost etc to put on her new veg beds, so it could be from one of those.
Bit of a worrying mystery.

[cloughie]

What I at first thought was simply overexuberance at the improved growing conditions(rain and warmth) now looks as if it might be something distinctly less positive. The leaves on my tomato plants have got very big and the stalks have got somewhat fasciated, way beyond the occasional incidence I have some years, and the flattened stalks now have small leaves and embryo shoots growing out of them. It all points to weedkiller damage, specifically aminopyralid, and having looked at the beans in the next bed I can see the leaves there are blistered and some have gone blotchy. I didn't notice it earlier partly because it's not so obvious and also because the weather we've had, including a damaging hailstorm about 3 weeks ago, have left a lot of plants with 'odd' foliage.
The question is 'why, and from where? I haven't used weedkiller, and I haven't brought in anything that might contain contaminated matter. The next door neighbour has been using weedkiller but the timings don't fit and in any case as far as I know it's glyphosate she's been using. Also the pattern of plants affected suggests soil not air origin, although that doesn't mean it isn't airborne in origin, and I suppose I'm going to have to ask what she has been using, and look it up - which I know isn't going to go down well even if I don't mention the problem I've got.
In theory the pyralid problem has been dealt with but I gather that in fact it not only still exists but has got worse, not least because material from equestrian sources is now contaminated even though that weedkiller isn't licensed for use with horses. If I had got manure or green waste products and used them this year that would possibly explain the matter, but I haven't. In fact I haven't done that at all in this garden, so it's not even that there is residue from a previous year(it takes a long time to break down unless dug into the soil - composting isn't the solution).
Someone 3 doors down says she has some damage, but I know she has been buying in all sorts of compost etc to put on her new veg beds, so it could be from one of those.
Bit of a worrying mystery.

As I read through you post I increasingly thought is it something in your compost - what did you plant the tomatoes in initially - isn’t green waste a widely used common source of commercially sold compost?

[oddoneout]

As I read through you post I increasingly thought is it something in your compost - what did you plant the tomatoes in initially - isn’t green waste a widely used common source of commercially sold compost?

It's the only thing I haven't double checked but I didn't have any problems with either germination or early growth with anything, nor in the weeks after they were first planted out which is why it seemed rather unlikely that would be the cause. I've got the bags for both the seed compost and the multipurpose I used so I can do a bit of checking.

[gradus]

I've recently started to use quite a lot of compost from the local recycling plant as I've run out of home-made stuff and so far at least it seems to be fine. I have noticed some of the effects you mention on tomatoes in earlier years when I used pig muck - now unavailable- but it was usually confined to one or two plants so I ignored it. I hope you get to the bottom of it.

[gurnemanz]

I do have a small "natural" area of the garden which I hope can be a wild life haven and was pleased to see a plump healthy-looking hedgehog sitting unperturbed under one of our garden chairs, who I thought might be based there.

[gradus]

I do have a small "natural" area of the garden which I hope can be a wild life haven and was pleased to see a plump healthy-looking hedgehog sitting unperturbed under one of our garden chairs, who I thought might be based there.

My problem is trying to keep botanical and avian nature within reasonable bounds. I haven't seen a hedgehog in the garden for a couple of years although one of my neighbours leaves food and drink for one that calls regularly. Haven't seen a grass snake in the garden for a few years either but came across a baby snake about 6 inches long when out for a walk with my grandson. Pigeons and magpies aplenty but not that many house martins and few swifts but no swallows so far.

[Dave2002]

My problem is trying to keep botanical and avian nature within reasonable bounds. I haven't seen a hedgehog in the garden for a couple of years although one of my neighbours leaves food and drink for one that calls regularly. Haven't seen a grass snake in the garden for a few years either but came across a baby snake about 6 inches long when out for a walk with my grandson. Pigeons and magpies aplenty but not that many house martins and few swifts but no swallows so far.

We definitely have swallows, and either swifts or house martins - possibly both. They fly so fast that it's hard to identify exactly, and it's also very hard to get a photograph, which might resolve that issue. We did have one swallow which I managed to capture in photos - firstly on our roof - and then in flight. I thought it was a swift, but someone looked at the photo and corrected me - swallows have a creamier underside and a blue/red flash on the head. Swifts and house martins are blacker overall, and may be harder to tell apart. I think swifts may have a curvier wing - but it's hard to tell and of course the wing shapes change very rapidly in flight. I was pleased to get the photo at all, but when I looked at it I realised that I should have forced my shutter speed to at least 1/2000 sec to get a sharper image. The automatic setting was only about 1/600 sec. Indeed I didn't even know that I'd taken the shot - it was only when looking at the files later that I spotted it. So if anyone wants to try, set the shutter speed high before doing anything else.

Another issue - more plant related. Our raspberries are maturing, but the yield is low, and the berries aren't very large. At least we haven't had much of an attack by birds. The few we've had do taste good, and have been used to flavour cakes, but I think that there are several factors at play regarding the size of the berries and the yield.

1. Possibly the particular variety of plant does not give large berries and a large yield.
2. Insufficient water. Despite the fact that it often seems to me that it rains most days, I think that only a relatively small amount of water gets to the plant roots.
3. I'm not sure whether these plants benefit from fertiliser of any sort.

This is not particularly encouraging, so I wonder whether we should either (a) abandon raspberries altogether, or (b) dig up the plants and replace them with a different variety, or (c) allocate a different part of the plot for raspberries and try a different variety - while retaining the first.

[gradus]

My newly-planted raspberries have failed; only 3 of a couple of dozen have survived. As I'm not a great enthusiast for raspberries I'm not too bothered but it's annoying to spend on new plants that fail having dug up the old still modestly productive canes earlier this year.
I probably should have taken more care with planting ie dug in plenty of manure/compost and kept them well-watered. It's been arid here so that didn't help.

[gurnemanz]

Plenty of thornless blackberries - just starting. Vic plums also but annoyingly some have maggots.

[cloughie]

Just had our first tomato, and others look to be ripening, runner beans regular now. The tomatoes are a real unplanned bonus as we were given the plants.

[oddoneout]

We definitely have swallows, and either swifts or house martins - possibly both. They fly so fast that it's hard to identify exactly, and it's also very hard to get a photograph, which might resolve that issue. We did have one swallow which I managed to capture in photos - firstly on our roof - and then in flight. I thought it was a swift, but someone looked at the photo and corrected me - swallows have a creamier underside and a blue/red flash on the head. Swifts and house martins are blacker overall, and may be harder to tell apart. I think swifts may have a curvier wing - but it's hard to tell and of course the wing shapes change very rapidly in flight. I was pleased to get the photo at all, but when I looked at it I realised that I should have forced my shutter speed to at least 1/2000 sec to get a sharper image. The automatic setting was only about 1/600 sec. Indeed I didn't even know that I'd taken the shot - it was only when looking at the files later that I spotted it. So if anyone wants to try, set the shutter speed high before doing anything else.

Another issue - more plant related. Our raspberries are maturing, but the yield is low, and the berries aren't very large. At least we haven't had much of an attack by birds. The few we've had do taste good, and have been used to flavour cakes, but I think that there are several factors at play regarding the size of the berries and the yield.

1. Possibly the particular variety of plant does not give large berries and a large yield.
2. Insufficient water. Despite the fact that it often seems to me that it rains most days, I think that only a relatively small amount of water gets to the plant roots.
3. I'm not sure whether these plants benefit from fertiliser of any sort.

This is not particularly encouraging, so I wonder whether we should either (a) abandon raspberries altogether, or (b) dig up the plants and replace them with a different variety, or (c) allocate a different part of the plot for raspberries and try a different variety - while retaining the first.

Raspberries benefit from being being rejuvenated periodically - digging up and preferably being put in a new patch of ground, or at least having the ground thoroughly cleared of weeds and a good quantity of humus material added before replanting. Having said that many patches will continue cropping for very many years if well looked after. Their weak point compared with many other fruit crops is that they are shallow rooted so don't cope well with lack of moisture, and the roots can be easily damaged when weeding etc as they are near the surface, thus adding more problems. I suspect it is lack of water causing your problems if the plants are basically healthy.
On my dry allotment I found that autumn fruiting varieties did better as their canes were shorter so reducing overall water demand and the weather was less inclined to be extremely hot and dry from August on, also the birds seemed less interested in what fruit was produced. Other plotholders got good result from summer fruit but only with attention to watering and netting.
Another thing to consider is that it is a woodland edge plant so can tolerate some shade, which helps to reduce water demand and stress. It's also the reason I suspect for the shallow rooting as it will be making use of the leaf litter as a mulch. I was able to get a supply of leafmould from a local school for a few years and that seemed to be very beneficial to the plants as a top dressing, possibly because even though it is low in nutrients it has all sorts of microbial activity; it also helped with holding onto soil moisture obviously. The crop may be slightly less sweet where shaded but that may be an acceptable compromise.

[ardcarp]

Raspberries. I can't be sure what variety ours are, but they are rampant. We dig up a few roots each year to stop them spreading everywhere. We give them no care or attention whatever yet they produce delicious fruit. Mrs A. prefers raspberries to strawberries!