Growing your own - is it worth it?

[gurnemanz]

I don't usually have nasturtium and will try collecting seeds as suggested. A omission no doubt. Calendula self-seed profusely every year and need thinning out. I collect Cosmos seeds every year with good results.

[Dave2002]

I agree, if the bulbs look dessicated they've probably had it but what's to lose, just dig a spade or two of earth drop them in and wait. You can sometimes be surprised by the powers of recovery.

If bulbs have been planted, and came up well this year, are they likely to do the same next year, or do many bulbs actually fade away over time? I think some manage to reproduce and expand, but perhaps some, such as more fancy tulip bulbs, seem to weaken over time. Are there any general rules? Should one just leave them in the ground and hope, or actively do anything with them? Maybe just assume that bulbs are never going to be good second time round, so either dispose of them, or put them into other parts of the garden .... ??? Perhaps it just depends on the type of plant, and the particular variety of bulb.

Hints would be helpful.

[gradus]

If bulbs have been planted, and came up well this year, are they likely to do the same next year, or do many bulbs actually fade away over time? I think some manage to reproduce and expand, but perhaps some, such as more fancy tulip bulbs, seem to weaken over time. Are there any general rules? Should one just leave them in the ground and hope, or actively do anything with them? Maybe just assume that bulbs are never going to be good second time round, so either dispose of them, or put them into other parts of the garden .... ??? Perhaps it just depends on the type of plant, and the particular variety of bulb.

Hints would be helpful.

Fancy tulips are I think best first year l though I have some that sort of flower in year 2 but not very well so I would dig them up after year 1. Species tulips and there are quite a few will multiply if left.
Daffs/narcissi can stay in the ground and will multiply if conditions are right ie they aren't too crowded and are planted deeply enough. Again, the fancier doubles will probably fade with time but I have some that have repeated for a second year. Singles or species again are best for naturalising or leaving to spread. Never cut back the foliage or bend it over but leave well alone for 6 weeks even though it looks untidy. Feed with a general purpose fertiliser when the bulbs have gone over. After a few years thin out the bulb clumps and re-plant with space between the bulbs.
I also plant out forced hyacinths in the garden and they go on for quite a time. The secret is to plant them at least a spade's depth and up they come flowering well every year.
I hope that some of this is useful Dave

[oddoneout]

If bulbs have been planted, and came up well this year, are they likely to do the same next year, or do many bulbs actually fade away over time? I think some manage to reproduce and expand, but perhaps some, such as more fancy tulip bulbs, seem to weaken over time. Are there any general rules? Should one just leave them in the ground and hope, or actively do anything with them? Maybe just assume that bulbs are never going to be good second time round, so either dispose of them, or put them into other parts of the garden .... ??? Perhaps it just depends on the type of plant, and the particular variety of bulb.

Hints would be helpful.

It varies. When choosing it is a clue if the blurb says 'good for naturalising' - although worth double checking with a reputable horticultural source in case of misinformed sales hype.
Tulip bulbs are not known for surviving to produce worthwhile subsequent displays beyond the first season, even if lifted, dried and replanted, although there are some species ones which will settle given the right conditions. The large flowered ones seem to expend too much energy in the flowering to build up adequate resources for the following year, which is why the commercial growers take the flowers off. Narcissus are better bets for year on year shows, some daffodils are very good at establishing ever increasing colonies - King Alfred is an old favourite, and Mount Hood is also good. Pheasant's eye narcissus are a delight of meadows in late spring, and scented. Many of the smaller species narcissus are good for forming colonies, and some will be suitable for naturalising in grass for a spring meadow. I have happy memories of the sight and perfume of jonquils in alpine meadows when on family camping holidays.
Hyacinths bought as houseplants can be grown on in the pot(watch out for slugs, they will eat the whole thing given half a chance),dried off, and replanted and in most cases will do well in subsequent years ; the flowers will be less dense on the spike(which can be an asset as they are more weather resistant) but the bulbs will often put up more than one spike. I look for the reduced to clear offerings in the supermarket and have built up a decent number for little cost that way. I don't plant them in the garden straightaway as late frost can knock them back but I know some folk do.
Many small bulbs are excellent for coming back year after year - grape hyacinths(especially the 'ordinary' blue one), scilla, chionodoxa, anemone blanda, bluebells(native and Spanish, but one is encouraged to avoid the latter) several of the bulbous iris , crocus large and small flowered (many of the species kinds are quick to spread) as a start for spring.
The reasons for not flourishing in following years can include: bulbs getting eaten(squirrels voles and mice) or rotting/getting diseased, conditions not suiting(being in a hot dry place when shade and moisture is needed, or being too tender to overwinter) or being just awkward to establish - snowdrops being a case in point. Narcissus can be affected by a tiresome fly which will result in non-flowering, but there are cultural methods to reduce that happening.
Gardens open to the public will often use bulbs as bedding, and buy and plant new each year, particularly tulips. For the home gardener planting and leaving them to get on with it will be perfectly satisfactory; marking where they are planted can be useful to prevent inadvertently disturbing them when the foliage dies down. Not allowing the foliage to do its job of building up the bulb for next season is another reason for gradual decline, and is a reason why some gardeners prefer to lift the bulbs, particularly the large flowered daffs which are quite messy in senescence, once flowered and put them somewhere else out of sight to finish dying down, then lift and dry to store until planting time.
Hope that is of help, will try and answer further questions if wished.

[ardcarp]

We had one heck of a job getting leek seeds. Managed in the end to get some online and then a packet from a kind neighbour.
Luckily loads of runner bean 'seeds' left over from last year. They're doing OK.

[gurnemanz]

Out of date runner beans are coming through OK, also courgettes - about half of what I sowed. Some older parsley has not appeared. Always slow to germinate but I'm not confident. I think I may need a plan B.

[oddoneout]

Out of date runner beans are coming through OK, also courgettes - about half of what I sowed. Some older parsley has not appeared. Always slow to germinate but I'm not confident. I think I may need a plan B.

Perhaps a pot of growing parsley from the supermarket if you can find one? They need a bit of nursing to overcome the shock of being forced in a greenhouse but then can be planted out in the garden or in a decent size pot; with care the clump can be split to provide 2 or 3 smaller ones. If they bolt leave them to seed in situ and look out for seedlings - they won't appear instantly but will pop up for quite some time. I now don't sow parsley, although I've always been successful with germination, as there is enough of a seed bank to supply what I need, a mix of curly and plain leaved - the latter seem to be more successful at seeding. The seeding plants are quite handsome, and popular with insects such as hoverflies.

[gurnemanz]

Perhaps a pot of growing parsley from the supermarket if you can find one? They need a bit of nursing to overcome the shock of being forced in a greenhouse but then can be planted out in the garden or in a decent size pot; with care the clump can be split to provide 2 or 3 smaller ones. If they bolt leave them to seed in situ and look out for seedlings - they won't appear instantly but will pop up for quite some time. I now don't sow parsley, although I've always been successful with germination, as there is enough of a seed bank to supply what I need, a mix of curly and plain leaved - the latter seem to be more successful at seeding. The seeding plants are quite handsome, and popular with insects such as hoverflies.

Thanks for advice. I'll need to do something. Parsley is essential. A couple of plants are still going strong from last year.

[Dave2002]

It varies. When choosing it is a clue if the blurb says 'good for naturalising' - although worth double checking with a reputable horticultural source in case of misinformed sales hype.
Tulip bulbs are not known for surviving to produce worthwhile subsequent displays beyond the first season, even if lifted, dried and replanted, although there are some species ones which will settle given the right conditions. The large flowered ones seem to expend too much energy in the flowering to build up adequate resources for the following year, which is why the commercial growers take the flowers off. Narcissus are better bets for year on year shows, some daffodils are very good at establishing ever increasing colonies - King Alfred is an old favourite, and Mount Hood is also good. Pheasant's eye narcissus are a delight of meadows in late spring, and scented. Many of the smaller species narcissus are good for forming colonies, and some will be suitable for naturalising in grass for a spring meadow. I have happy memories of the sight and perfume of jonquils in alpine meadows when on family camping holidays.

Thanks for the detailed comments. Some of this seems to fit with my own observations. Tulips just don't seem to come back, or if they do, they're not very good as you say. Daffodils and narcissi of various types do seem to come back most years.

We do put out hyacinth bulbs we've had indoors just to see what happens - sometimes it works. Some plants are hard to get rid of, such as some of the grape hyacinth variants.

We have some lovely tulips this year, but presumably I shouldn't hold out any hope of seeing them again. Which begs a question - how do the tulip growers keep them going? Do they generate from seed?

[gurnemanz]

I never lift bulbs. a) too much effort b), might disturb the roots of other plants growing close by, c) a lot of them seem to continue flowering for a couple of years or more anyway. I had a decent show of tulips and daffs this year and haven't planted any for a while.

Not bulbs but I couldn't avoid doing a major dividing, de-clumping and replanting job on some hemerocallis which had started flowering far less profusely. Foliage looking good. Curious to see how they perform.

PS My spellchecker suggests "agrochemicals" for "hemerocallis".

[oddoneout]

Thanks for the detailed comments. Some of this seems to fit with my own observations. Tulips just don't seem to come back, or if they do, they're not very good as you say. Daffodils and narcissi of various types do seem to come back most years.

We do put out hyacinth bulbs we've had indoors just to see what happens - sometimes it works. Some plants are hard to get rid of, such as some of the grape hyacinth variants.

We have some lovely tulips this year, but presumably I shouldn't hold out any hope of seeing them again. Which begs a question - how do the tulip growers keep them going? Do they generate from seed?

Haven't watched all through but this should answer the question!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgLPCHX37f4

Yes grape hyacinths can get a bit too enthusiastic. It can help to slow the spread down if they are deadheaded - when I had two large colonies in a former garden I didn't bother with individual stems I just took a pair of scissors to the lot, leaves and all, just below the bottom of the flowerhead. That left plenty of leaf to feed the bulb, especially as new leaves come up a long time before flowering starts the following season.

[oddoneout]

I never lift bulbs. a) too much effort b), might disturb the roots of other plants growing close by, c) a lot of them seem to continue flowering for a couple of years or more anyway. I had a decent show of tulips and daffs this year and haven't planted any for a while.

Not bulbs but I couldn't avoid doing a major dividing, de-clumping and replanting job on some hemerocallis which had started flowering far less profusely. Foliage looking good. Curious to see how they perform.

PS My spellchecker suggests "agrochemicals" for "hemerocallis".

That Monsanto lot get everywhere don't they?

[gurnemanz]

Small events in the garden can be surprisingly satisfying. I found a runner bean determinedly growing out of the compost heap. It looked pretty sturdy and it duly went into a pot and will be incorporated with this year's lot.

[Dave2002]

Haven't watched all through but this should answer the question!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgLPCHX37f4

I'm not sure it does - did I miss something? It look as though bulbs go into the ground, they grow, the flowers come up and are used as a crop, then the bulbs stay in the ground for a bit, before themselves being dug up and washed etc. OK - it's a cycle, but why wouldn't those particular bulbs degrade over time, just like the ones we leave in the ground?

Amazing stuff - and the video features what look like some of the most boring jobs in the world!

[oddoneout]

I'm not sure it does - did I miss something? It look as though bulbs go into the ground, they grow, the flowers come up and are used as a crop, then the bulbs stay in the ground for a bit, before themselves being dug up and washed etc. OK - it's a cycle, but why wouldn't those particular bulbs degrade over time, just like the ones we leave in the ground?

Amazing stuff - and the video features what look like some of the most boring jobs in the world!

The section on propagation here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip may help? I think the short answer to your last question is 'yes' but they are sold once they reach the right size so the degradation happens in the customer's garden!