Growing your own - is it worth it?

[oddoneout]

Just managed to get some chard growing from some rather elderly heritage seeds, they must be at least 5 years old.

Opinions seem to differ about the viability of stored chard seed, from 2 to 8 years.
If you let one or two plants bolt then you can save seed for next year - or let it drop in situ and grow 'free-range'. The plants will often overwinter depending on what time they germinate and will then put up a tall( may need a stake) flowering spike in the spring. I often used to let that happen on the allotment, not least because the leaves on the spike, although small, were edible so still useful in the kitchen. A bonus was a lovely honey perfume despite the flowers themselves being minimal almost to the point of invisibility. The rainbow chard wasn't as good at providing seed as the ordinary white form which was a shame as obviously the spikes were very decorative - thick stems of bright orange, pink or yellow.

[Globaltruth]

Veg patch under pigeon attack - advice please

My veg and wildflower patch is next door to my daughters house.
She has a small elderly cat who is now declining fast and who no longer spends time asleep in the sun keeping off pigeons by her very presence; the poor old thing never leaves the house.

The pigeons have become an absolute nightmare this year - destroying many veg very quickly.
I've tried various defences - best seems to be fleece (permanently in place now), veggiemesh tunnels over insulating tube hoops (works well but I can't cover the whole plot), netting (fruit bushes), and intricate networks of interlaced twigs to stop them gaining entrance to growing areas.
Still they come. I
Does anyone have any tips that work please?

I'm not prepared to use poison, can't shoot them either - there are houses behind and on the other side the back of the Methodist church which is also used by the local playgroup.

Any other suggestions gratefully accepted...

[Cockney Sparrow]

The pigeons have become an absolute nightmare this year - destroying many veg very quickly.
I've tried various defences - best seems to be fleece (permanently in place now), veggiemesh tunnels over insulating tube hoops (works well but I can't cover the whole plot), netting (fruit bushes), and intricate networks of interlaced twigs to stop them gaining entrance to growing areas.
Still they come. I
Does anyone have any tips that work please?

I think this very point was answered in last (or this) week's G Question Time. Afraid if there is no pest control possible you're stuck with protection measures - the veggiemesh is a pain - although for Pigeons a wider mesh net might do instead. Unsightly in a garden but old (bronzed?) CDs and other stuff fluttering (and moved around) are used by some on the allotments. Devices to unsettle the ****ers like cotton they run into and Bob Flowerdew's imitation snakes have been advocated. In GQT Matthew Biggs describes going away for his lunchtime sandwich with the the netting off, mid maintenance session, and coming back to a scene of devastation caused by opportunist Pigeons.

Sorry there isn't much else I can say.....

[gurnemanz]

Fantastic when the berries start coming through, which we enjoy not only as desserts but also with cereal for breakfast. Red and blackcurrants are there. White on the way. I only have some token strawberry plants but the harvest has been good. We had our annual gooseberry fool fest last week. Not a huge harvest but enough for several servings and an absolute favourite. Lots of lovely tayberries which grew through years ago from our neighbour and have spread to be quite prolific.
.

[Dave2002]

Fantastic when the berries start coming through, which we enjoy not only as desserts but also with cereal for breakfast. Red and blackcurrants are there. White on the way. I only have some token strawberry plants but the harvest has been good. We had our annual gooseberry fool fest last week. Not a huge harvest but enough for several servings and an absolute favourite. Lots of lovely tayberries which grew through years ago from our neighbour and have spread to be quite prolific.
.

We have what should be a good crop of raspberries coming along. Spent some time yesterday putting up netting, and trying to devise a way of making it really secure. Used one of these bodkin things (I thought they only existed, barely, in Shakespeare ...) https://www.amazon.co.uk/SGerste-Ela...2772120&sr=8-5 and some florist wire like this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Outstading-...NsaWNrPXRydWU= to try to make a really secure barrier with the netting.

Still got a bit more to do. The crop wasn't as good last year, but by the time we noticed it, the birds had gorged all but a couple of berries.

[oddoneout]

My veg and wildflower patch is next door to my daughters house.
She has a small elderly cat who is now declining fast and who no longer spends time asleep in the sun keeping off pigeons by her very presence; the poor old thing never leaves the house.

The pigeons have become an absolute nightmare this year - destroying many veg very quickly.
I've tried various defences - best seems to be fleece (permanently in place now), veggiemesh tunnels over insulating tube hoops (works well but I can't cover the whole plot), netting (fruit bushes), and intricate networks of interlaced twigs to stop them gaining entrance to growing areas.
Still they come. I
Does anyone have any tips that work please?

I'm not prepared to use poison, can't shoot them either - there are houses behind and on the other side the back of the Methodist church which is also used by the local playgroup.

Any other suggestions gratefully accepted...

You have my sympathies. Over the 30+ years I had my allotment(s) the battle with the pigeons was the one constant. Being next to arable fields certainly didn't help, but it was noticeable that as the population rose the birds became more determined to attack the produce. They would start eating things that previously hadn't been targeted, eat fruit before it was anywhere near ripe(breaking bushes and wasting much of the crop) and got less and less deterred by the measures that previously had been adequate protection. Netting draped over brassicas used to work, then had to be lifted up off them and then, after one hard snowy winter the birds learned that they could stand on the netting to push it down onto the plants and peck through. Up until then I think a natural wariness about getting caught in the netting had prevented direct engagement. So we had to erect the equivalent of fruit cages - at the simplest tallish canes(there was a limit to how much pushing down of the netting the birds would do if it was reasonably taut to begin with) depending on the height of the crop, with netting(didn't need to be fine mesh) draped over and pegged down to stop it blowing off. Small yogurt pots, or tennis balls, stopped the netting sliding down the canes. Some folk used wooden posts and roofing laths to make a permanent framework which was covered as appropriate; rotation meant that some years they would have to work round the bare frame - ducking and diving so to speak! Mind you, when we had rabbit population explosions as well then everything got covered.
Nothing will stop the pigeons coming - but you can do a lot to make their visits unproductive. The one thing that can really mess up the plan is if there is snow, as that settles on the netting and can bring the whole thing down, which you can be sure the dratted creatures will seize on before you even know about it. One solution is to use large mesh bean netting on the top as that won't collect the snow as quickly.
The best netting to use is the flexible 'knitted' kind, which may have to be obtained online. It's expensive initially but lasts for donkeys years(I've some I've been using for about 10 years now), easy to use and rolls up well for storage, but at this stage whatever you can get will do - even the large mesh bean netting will serve if on a good frame at sufficient distance to stop the head being poked through the sides.
Nobody on the plots I was on found any of the CDs, snakes, glitter tapes etc methods any use at all with pigeons, although some reckoned they worked to an extent to keep blackbirds off the strawberries.

[gradus]

I've seen some Crystal Palace-like structures made from black plastic electrical conduit and green netting that seem to do the trick and keep pigeons at bay, some of these constructions are quite extraordinarily well-made but take ages to put together. For those with lazyitis like myself, lay Enviromesh over the vulnerable veggies ie peas, brassicas, lettuces and anything that has tasty young foliage like beets and the plants are protected. When veggies start to mature most pigeons seem less interested and the Enviromesh comes off but some will persist especially with peas and brassicas in which case on with the cover again.
Soft fruit has been a disaster this year. I have lost all gooseberries from a dozen bushes through failing to cover up and Josta berries, white currants and red currants and some but not all black currant bushes have met the same fate.
Next year I will make some wooden frames and cover them with netting to keep the birds at bay. Strawberry plants are small and I've used an old polythene cloche to protect the fruit.

[Globaltruth]

Thanks all - I already have 2 enviromeshed areas which do work well, and also net soft fruit it’s just that this year the pigeons have moved onto plants they’ve never touched before - so I’ll have to net more. Agree about the hanging cd’s et al - pigeons regard that as on-plot entertainment I think.
It’s a nuisance when you have to move netting for weeding and harvesting, but the alternative is that they have it all.

At least leeks, broad beans and onions are currently out of favour.
As well as agretti/salsola (aka land samphire) which I’ve probably banged on about before (worth checking out - can still be sown)

Thanks again, we may have to move onto squirrels and mice next...

[oddoneout]

You're right about moving on to other things, it's probably a part of why the population is so high, they adapt. This year in early spring they destroyed clumps of carnations(grown from cutting from bouquets) and one of pinks by grazing them right down to the ground, and clumps of aquilegia in two beds were pecked off at about 5" - so flowering was much reduced.Last week I noticed that they had got at both those again, and added the clumps of pasque flower foliage. The latter is especially annoying since they die down in summer so losing foliage now after such a dry spring already challenged the plants affects next year's growth.

[oddoneout]

More on pigeons. A clump of lovely white clove scented dianthus just come into bloom completely decapitated(and eaten), just as if someone had taken scissors to it. Attention then turned to the nearby brodeia(pretty blue flowered bulbs) although to add insult to injury they obviously weren't considered good eating so were left lying on the soil to wither in the heat...

[Globaltruth]

More on pigeons. A clump of lovely white clove scented dianthus just come into bloom completely decapitated(and eaten), just as if someone had taken scissors to it. Attention then turned to the nearby brodeia(pretty blue flowered bulbs) although to add insult to injury they obviously weren't considered good eating so were left lying on the soil to wither in the heat...

They did exactly the same in our flower garden to our dianthus. Just to make it clear, my veg patch is about a mile away from home. I now think:
a) they're following me
b) they communicate telepathically
c) actually they're just pigeons and it is what they do.

It's the fact they wait till they flower that got us.... all the Cosmos too.

[Globaltruth]

I've seen some Crystal Palace-like structures made from black plastic electrical conduit and green netting that seem to do the trick and keep pigeons at bay, some of these constructions are quite extraordinarily well-made but take ages to put together. For those with lazyitis like myself, lay Enviromesh over the vulnerable veggies ie peas, brassicas, lettuces and anything that has tasty young foliage like beets and the plants are protected. When veggies start to mature most pigeons seem less interested and the Enviromesh comes off but some will persist especially with peas and brassicas in which case on with the cover again.
Soft fruit has been a disaster this year. I have lost all gooseberries from a dozen bushes through failing to cover up and Josta berries, white currants and red currants and some but not all black currant bushes have met the same fate.
Next year I will make some wooden frames and cover them with netting to keep the birds at bay. Strawberry plants are small and I've used an old polythene cloche to protect the fruit.

Enviromesh is proving a winner - I already use it for brassicas but now have it draped elegantly over beetroot, peas and lettuce.
The pigeons meanwhile have discovered they love nasturtiums which grow in abundance like a (very pleasant and edible) weed.
This is an acceptable compromise all round.
Fingers crossed.

[oddoneout]

Enviromesh is proving a winner - I already use it for brassicas but now have it draped elegantly over beetroot, peas and lettuce.
The pigeons meanwhile have discovered they love nasturtiums which grow in abundance like a (very pleasant and edible) weed.
This is an acceptable compromise all round.
Fingers crossed.

Nasturtiums are useful as sacrificial plants round vulnerable crops for aphid and cabbage butterfly problems, so now pigeons can be added to the list! Glad to hear the enviromesh is proving useful - after all the effort put into raising the crops it's good to be able to get something from them, and let's face it pigeons are hardly an endangered species to be willingly fed our finest veg.

[vinteuil]

Nasturtiums are useful as sacrificial plants round vulnerable crops for aphid and cabbage butterfly problems, so now pigeons can be added to the list! Glad to hear the enviromesh is proving useful - after all the effort put into raising the crops it's good to be able to get something from them, and let's face it pigeons are hardly an endangered species to be willingly fed our finest veg.

... mmm, nasturtium-fed pigeon

https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/collection/pigeon

delish!


.

[oddoneout]

... mmm, nasturtium-fed pigeon

https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/collection/pigeon

delish!


.

I did try pigeon some years ago when the butcher had it on offer - wasn't impressed. I was also rather surprised as I've had pheasant, partridge and venison and liked them all, and had expected to like the pigeon too.