Growing your own - is it worth it?

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  • gradus
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 5622

    Good that common sense prevailed. We're currently trying to get an allotment society going as our village allotments disappeared donkeys' years ago. My allotment is a mile away in the next village, a tad inconvenient but worth the effort.

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    • doversoul1
      Ex Member
      • Dec 2010
      • 7132

      Do wild creatures develop new tastes and skills?

      Nothing, including slugs, touched leeks all those years I was growing them but last year, several fully grown leeks were eaten through at the base. This morning, I found that several leek plants in the box were pulled up and the roots chopped off. They weren’t eaten but just left. Large trays of leeks, late runner beans, curly kale plants etc. were placed on boxes and buckets with a wire fence around them. The top was left open, so the culprit must be a bird but what birds are interested in leeks? Magpies were pulling up the runner beans last year but this is too delicate a job for them. I have added a wire roof to the fence. Very odd.

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      • gradus
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 5622

        No idea who dunnit but maybe the leek culprit is an insect feeder looking for bugs in the roots?
        I don't suppose snails or slugs could be the root attackers, perhaps hiding under boxes/rims of containers during the day?

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        • umslopogaas
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 1977

          A few strands of wire overhead will see off the birds. I suspect that what is chewing through the base of your leeks is rodents. Most likely field mice. Set a few traps and see what you catch. A few slug pellets strewn around are also a wise precaution, but if the damage is chewing, my money's on mice.

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          • doversoul1
            Ex Member
            • Dec 2010
            • 7132

            A few peas have now reached 6 feet plus but most are sensible 4-5 feet this year, and pods are getting bigger. I thought I knew which were peas and which mange tout but looking at them now, I’m not sure.

            The runner beans are struggling terrible this year. The weather hasn’t been all that warm but as they are a cold climate vegetable, I wouldn’t have thought they minded but they seem to.

            And a family of rabbits are visiting our garden daily now. I have fenced the vegetables as best I could but I practice, this only stops me going in and out from where I want. Ah well…

            The leeks: what puzzles me is that nothing has touched them until this year.

            Comment

            • Anna

              Due to constant gales I had to delay planting the runners out so they didn't go in until the 2nd June, they're not yet up to the top of the poles, some only halfway up, but full of flowers (Streamline plus a few Scarlet Emperors) As I haven't had much luck with tomatoes lately I've stuck with old varieties: Moneymaker, Shirley, Sungold, Alicante, put them in a different site and have ignored them totally. With the exception of Shirley they all seem to be doing well and Alicante has a lot of fruits. My neighbour gave me some surplus dwarf French seeds so I've planted them in some ground that I've newly cleared, probably a bit late but it's worth a try, not too bothered as I prefer runners but is it true or an old wives tale that growing beans increases soil fertility by throwing out nitrogen? (Cleared ground is part of garden makeover and destined for perennials and small shrubs)

              Someone mentioned parsley, mine has been in for years, now it's seeding, should I discard and start all over - I've just been chopping the seedy stems off - and is flatleaf parsley as hardy. I have flatleaf in a pot outside and I use it more than curly but will it go on forever and through the Winter?

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              • umslopogaas
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 1977

                Parsley is biennial, it produces leaves in the first year and runs to seed in the second. If you cut off the flower stalks as they appear you can salvage a bit more leaf, but it will continue to try and flower. It may stagger on for another year or two, but will continue to put most of its energy into trying to seed. I sow a bit every year, I think you get a much better harvest from the first year's growth.

                Legumes like runner beans fix nitrogen from the air in their roots, so dont need nitrogen fertiliser (giving them a bit extra does no harm, but dont overdo it, it is possible to overfertilise. Organic stuff like blood fish and bone is safer than inorganic stuff like Growmore, if you are worried about overdosing). Because they fix nitrogen, the roots will have more in them than those of non-legumes, so leaving the roots in the ground to rot down over winter should increase nitrogen levels in the soil. Whether they actually "throw out" nitrogen during the growing season, I'm not sure. Maybe a little, but I expect most of it goes up into the plant.

                Yours are way ahead of mine, the tallest is only half way up the wigwam and there are buds, but flowers are at least two weeks away. Fist peas will be ready in a week or so. French beans are in pots, they are growing but are still very small.

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                • jean
                  Late member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 7100

                  Not having been down to the allotment for a few days, I was very upset yesterday to see the state of my damson tree.

                  This has been susceptible in the past to something that attacks some of the fruits as they develop and horribly distorts them. Usually I have just taken off the affected fruits and burned them, and the majority have developed normally. But this year, this thing has spread over the whole tree.

                  What is this? What can I do? Will I be able to save the tree?

                  Comment

                  • Honoured Guest

                    Originally posted by jean View Post
                    Usually I have just taken off the affected fruits and burned them,
                    Why not dispose of them with your other food waste?

                    Comment

                    • umslopogaas
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 1977

                      Sounds like pocket plum, a disease caused by the fungus Taphrina pruni (a relative of Taphrina deformans, which causes peach leaf curl). Later, the affected fruit will be covered with a white bloom of spores which float off into the air and land on and infect plum and damson shoots. The fungus overwinters in the shoots, then spreads down into the developing fruits in the following year. My book only suggests removing and destroying the affected fruit. However, at the risk of incurring the wrath of the Pesticide Safety Directorate ...

                      Murphy Copper Fungicide is approved for use on plums to control bacterial canker: see the label, three sprays starting in August. If you applied it to the shoots to protect against pocket plum you would need to start earlier, before the affected plums developed the white spore bloom. I've no idea how often, but I'd suggest three sprays starting in early June, at monthly intervals. This would strictly speaking be illegal, because its not an approved use (not on the label), but since it is legal to use copper to control canker, I dont suppose the heavies from PSD would be too upset and anyway, you could just tell them that you are spraying against canker, but a friend said you would get better results if you started earlier than Murphy recommends. Maximum permitted number of sprays is three.

                      You should still remove and destroy infected fruit, of course, but the copper would protect from spores that float in from other people's infected trees.

                      Comment

                      • jean
                        Late member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 7100

                        Thank you. Seems I ought to start spraying now to stop it spreading, though it's too late to save this year's crop!

                        [Edit]...but it seems it's no longer available! Is there an effecticeve alternative?

                        [Further edit]...(Vitax Bordeaux Mixture* or Bayer Garden Fruit and Vegetable Control*) for control of bacterial canker will probably give some incidental control.

                        But *NB: These products are being withdrawn and cannot be sold after the 30th November 2014 and remaining stocks must be used or disposed of before the 30th November 2015

                        And then there's this, but lots of the products are now withdrawn, or are for use on ornamental plants only.

                        Is there anything else?

                        .
                        Last edited by jean; 21-06-15, 13:25.

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                        • umslopogaas
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 1977

                          Having happily suggested spraying copper, I have now discovered, as you have, that it is being withdrawn from sale. My local Homebase had none, and the local nursery had just sold his last packet and was not able to restock. If you can track any down, snap it up. It may be illegal to use it next year and of course I couldnt possibly recommend doing something illegal, even though it will not be any more dangerous next year than it was this year, so on your own head be it if the man from PSD comes knocking ...

                          If it was approved for pocket plum, Bayer Fungus Fighter Plus would probably do the job, but again, since it isnt I cant recommend it. Though in the spirit of experiment, you could give it a try, it would be OK, I think, providing you told the man from PSD you werent going to eat the plums. If you did not spray within three weeks of harvest there would be no hazard, any fungicide absorbed by the fruit would have gone by then.

                          If this all sounds very silly, then in many ways it is. Pesticides are of course potentially dangerous and must be handled with care. That is why the ones sold to amateur gardeners, who cannot realistically be subject to compulsory safety precautions, are deemed safe to use by the untrained and unprotected amateur. To then place further legal restrictions on something already safe makes little sense, and is likely to turn a lot of perfectly respectable people into criminals even though they have done nothing morally or physically wrong.

                          I suspect that the reason for withdrawal of these products is actually because they are not sufficiently profitable, especially as the ever greater expense required to keep them on the market eats into the profit margins.

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                          • jean
                            Late member
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 7100

                            It looks as if you can make your own Bordeaux mixture, so long as you can get hold of the copper sulphate and the hydrated lime...

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                            • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                              Gone fishin'
                              • Sep 2011
                              • 30163

                              Originally posted by jean View Post
                              It looks as if you can make your own Bordeaux mixture, so long as you can get hold of the copper sulphate and the hydrated lime...
                              I think I'll have the white!
                              [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

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                              • umslopogaas
                                Full Member
                                • Nov 2010
                                • 1977

                                I dont know where we are with the law on that one, but I suspect that if it has been withdrawn from sale because registration has lapsed, it would be illegal to use it, even if you made it yourself. However, here is a recipe (never tried it myself):

                                Mix 3/4 lb copper sulphate and 1 lb quicklime (not hydrated, apparently) with 10 gallons of water. Make fresh as required.

                                I dont think it would matter if you used hydrated lime, because the quicklime is going to turn into hydrated lime as soon as you add the water.

                                10 gallons is an awful lot, you'd only need a pint or so for one damson tree. Bordeaux would actually be better than copper fungicide, because it sticks better to the leaves.

                                According to my 1953 gardening book, there is also Burgundy mixture, made in the same way as Bordeaux but substituting washing soda for quicklime. Used in smoky areas where the smoke reacts with the Bordeaux. It might be easier to obtain washing soda than quicklime, but to get hold of copper sulphate, you'll probably need a friendly chemist.

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