The Joys of Southport, narrated by Alvar Lidell

[Nick Armstrong]

Priceless !!

[french frank]

Priceless !!

Nostalgic, more like . Who remembers khaki shorts, with snake-hook belts?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Nostalgic, more like . Who remembers khaki shorts, with snake-hook belts?

"Remembers"?? I still wear them!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Incidentally, about ten years after the documentary was made, Southport became the most frequent weekend seaside haunt for the fhg family. I remember "Peter Pan's Playground" (and that special pink that could be found only in Candy Floss and Batman Cards bubble gum) - and the sand dunes (very sharp on my two-three-year-old feet and legs). The first photograph that I can remember being taken of me was with my parents on Southport pier: I am eating a Wall's ice cream and we're all scowling at the cameraman who had us looking into the sun at him. And that mini-railway (which I loved) and hired paddle boats at that age, I hadn't grasped the concept of "Time's Up" and couldn't understand why my mother and the ticket seller were gesticulating so frantically at me from the side!

And the model village (I don't think I was ever told it was called "The Land of the Little People") and pleasureland!

So many memories. All of 'em hideous!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

"Only little girls aged four to six may compete".

Now they tell me.

[Nick Armstrong]

So many memories. All of 'em hideous!

"Only little girls aged four to six may compete".

Now they tell me.

You've been "on fire" (cf: 'teeth grating expressions'... ) on various threads of late, ferns - only now have I a few moments to say as much

[french frank]

I am eating a Wall's ice cream

I have a photo of me eating a Wall's ice cream - I suspect in my khaki shorts, snake hook belt - and pigtails.

Anyway, to be serious: I wonder why it is considered (by some) hilarious that people spoke in that dated fashion (à la Alvar Liddell) yet they wouldn't dream of laughing at someone with a regional accent that was not their own? (ALL right, sometimes they do, but what's the difference? ). Why is one more 'acceptable' than the other?

[jean]

I wonder why it is considered (by some) hilarious that people spoke in that dated fashion (à la Alvar Liddell) yet they wouldn't dream of laughing at someone with a regional accent that was not their own?

People don't so much laugh at regional accents as express distate and even outrage that they should be expected to listen to them (especially on Radio 3).

And just look at the things they say about Estuary accents.

[Gordon]

...And just look at the things they say about Estuary accents.

I trust you mean the Mersey Jean!! Those Birkenhead folk are a bit difficult to understand.

[Serial_Apologist]

I have a photo of me eating a Wall's ice cream - I suspect in my khaki shorts, snake hook belt - and pigtails.

Anyway, to be serious: I wonder why it is considered (by some) hilarious that people spoke in that dated fashion (à la Alvar Liddell) yet they wouldn't dream of laughing at someone with a regional accent that was not their own? (ALL right, sometimes they do, but what's the difference? ). Why is one more 'acceptable' than the other?

I think ability to laugh at one's own regional accent goes along with a certain pride in having it. I remember someone telling the Bristolian jazz pianist Keith Tippett: "You sound like a country bumpkin whenever you speak". I thought Keith would be annoyed, but instead he replied, "But I AM a country bumpkin!"

[french frank]

People don't so much laugh at regional accents as express distate and even outrage that they should be expected to listen to them (especially on Radio 3).

And just look at the things they say about Estuary accents.

But they DO say more or less the same things. If one points to the good old days, someone will point out that people were stiff, formal, posh, and we can't have that; so it's baby and bathwater. If one had good classical music presenters with a strong regional accent, would most people complain? Instead, if they get local radio presenters who know nothing about it - they do complain.

Like a lot of things - if people are felt to be aggressively black, Jewish, Yorkshire, feminine, it starts to grate. People who do the job well is what's wanted (on Radio 3), isn't it?

[Gordon]

Like a lot of things - if people are felt to be aggressively black, Jewish, Yorkshire, feminine, it starts to grate. People who do the job well is what's wanted (on Radio 3), isn't it?

Well, yes, but they need to be "people like us", speak with authority but not distracting in themselves from that job. The trouble is that that "us" is a large target to the extent that it means that someone is going to grumble. They can't win.

Back in Alvar Lidell's day no one thought much about this sort of issue; he was male, obviously speaking the language of those "in control", the officer class. What about Brian Sewell for Breakfast!!

[jean]

What may appear perfectly neutral to some listeners is going to seem aggressively black, Jewish, Yorkshire, feminine or whatever to others.

Does anyone else remember the sheer venom of those threads on the Radio 4 MBs directed at poor Neil Nunes?

Back in Alvar Lidell's day no one thought much about this sort of issue...

If they didn't, it was only because back then, newsreaders all spoke in much the same way - except of course for Wilfrid Pickles:

...during the War, in November 1941, Pickles began to read the news on the National Programme and it is hard now to understand the interest and controversy that this provoked. But the BBC was concerned that, in the event of a German invasion, the accents of the established national newsreaders (Stuart Hibberd, Frank Phillips, Alvar Lidell, etc.) would be too easy to imitate, if broadcasting was infiltrated. This was one of the reasons for the naming of newsreaders, who had traditionally been anonymous, from July 1940 onwards. In the event, his appointment was seen as a triumph, particularly when he dared to end the midnight news by wishing his fellow northerners 'Good neet'. ('We rather like your "Good neet"', said John Snagge.)

[jean]

And as to Southport, can I just say...a seaside resort without any visible sea is on a hiding to nothing.

[french frank]

And as to Southport, can I just say...a seaside resort without any visible sea is on a hiding to nothing.

Not unlike Weston-sooper-Maray.