French Roads

[ardcarp]

I have memories of driving through France (Calais to St Jean de Luz ) at the age of 17 with a friend. We had just left school and were up for an adventure in an ancient Morris Minor and an even more ancient tent. The road surfaces were terrible, especially at the the sides which were so uneven that the nearside wheels and suspension produced an almost constant violent wobble. Paris was fun, with strangely uniformed traffic police whirling truncheon-like objects and blowing whistles. It was general chaos, since nobody seemed to know what they meant.

Latterly Mrs A and I have driven in France a lot, and have been amazed at the huge improvement in road surfaces and especially at the very consistent signage, making knowing where and what to do at junctions far, far better than in the UK. Mind-you, they do seem to be obsessed with putting new rond-points everywhere, many of which our G-map app hadn't learned about. And orange headlights seem almost a thing of the past.

More recently we have tended to sail to France and so have not driven so much. But we treated ourselves to a short Brittany Ferries break last week, and noticed two things. 1. The French motorists' tendency to 'tailgate' you whether they wanted to overtake or not seemed markedly less. In other words, their driving seemed more civilised and safe. Mind you, this was in Brittany, and we deliberately avoided Routes Nationales where possible.* 2. A new (to us) road-sign had appeared everywhere;

https://expatsfrance.com/speed-cameras-warnings-in-france/

We had no idea what the picture meant. We now know that they informed you that the warnings of speed-cameras, a relatively recent phenomenon in France anyway, had been removed. In other words they could be anywhere. I wonder how much it cost the government to post notices warning of of the possible presence or absence of speed- cameras countrywide?

*No autoroutes or péages in Brittany I gather.

The driving aspect of our short break was fantastic and pleasurable. Wonderful roads and very, very light traffic. How different from the UK. The delightful patron of our hotel had a few moans about life.....reduced guest numbers [nothing to do with Brexit, I suppose?] the difficulty of recruiting young staff, increased costs, and currently a shortage of petrol and diesel. We had been warned by a French friend to take a couple of spare cans of fuel, probably illegally.

[eighthobstruction]

I have memories of driving through France (Calais to St Jean de Luz ) at the age of 17 with a friend. We had just left school and were up for an adventure in an ancient Morris Minor and an even more ancient tent. The road surfaces were terrible, especially at the the sides which were so uneven that the nearside wheels and suspension produced an almost constant violent wobble. Paris was fun, with strangely uniformed traffic police whirling truncheon-like objects and blowing whistles. It was general chaos, since nobody seemed to know what they meant.

Latterly Mrs A and I have driven in France a lot, and have been amazed at the huge improvement in road surfaces and especially at the very consistent signage, making knowing where and what to do at junctions far, far better than in the UK. Mind-you, they do seem to be obsessed with putting new rond-points everywhere, many of which our G-map app hadn't learned about. And orange headlights seem almost a thing of the past.

More recently we have tended to sail to France and so have not driven so much. But we treated ourselves to a short Brittany Ferries break last week, and noticed two things. 1. The French motorists' tendency to 'tailgate' you whether they wanted to overtake or not seemed markedly less. In other words, their driving seemed more civilised and safe. Mind you, this was in Brittany, and we deliberately avoided Routes Nationales where possible.* 2. A new (to us) road-sign had appeared everywhere;

https://expatsfrance.com/speed-cameras-warnings-in-france/

We had no idea what the picture meant. We now know that they informed you that the warnings of speed-cameras, a relatively recent phenomenon in France anyway, had been removed. In other words they could be anywhere. I wonder how much it cost the government to post notices warning of of the possible presence or absence of speed- cameras countrywide?

*No autoroutes or péages in Brittany I gather.

The driving aspect of our short break was fantastic and pleasurable. Wonderful roads and very, very light traffic. How different from the UK. The delightful patron of our hotel had a few moans about life.....reduced guest numbers [nothing to do with Brexit, I suppose?] the difficulty of recruiting young staff, increased costs, and currently a shortage of petrol and diesel. We had been warned by a French friend to take a couple of spare cans of fuel, probably illegally.

[RichardB]

We had no idea what the picture meant. We now know that they informed you that the warnings of speed-cameras, a relatively recent phenomenon in France anyway, had been removed. In other words they could be anywhere. I wonder how much it cost the government to post notices warning of of the possible presence or absence of speed- cameras countrywide?

Having lived in Germany where speed cameras can be anywhere, hidden in a tree for example, and there are never any warnings, I always thought the speed camera warning signs in the UK were one of the few actual pieces of evidence for the proverbial British politeness that foreigners go on about.

[kernelbogey]

Off topic, I know - apologies - but my son and I had a hugely enjoyable week's interrail trip in September from Calais, via Paris and Marseilles into Italy (then 6 more days there). The travel highlight was the TGV from Paris to the Midi; a spotless, quiet train and wonderful comfort. They order these things better in France.

[Serial_Apologist]

Off topic, I know - apologies - but my son and I had a hugely enjoyable week's interrail trip in September from Calais, via Paris and Marseilles into Italy (then 6 more days there). The travel highlight was the TGV from Paris to the Midi; a spotless, quiet train and wonderful comfort. They order these things better in France.

I sometimes think that good things that originate in the UK are taken up elsewhere, then subsequently dropped or not further developed here - like, inventions.

[RichardB]

I sometimes think that good things that originate in the UK are taken up elsewhere, then subsequently dropped or not further developed here - like, inventions.

Or the manufacturing industry.

[Cockney Sparrow]

We drove to the Haute-Savoie - Aix-les-Bains etc, drove around the area each day, drivers were considerate and it was a pleasure to be driving there. The provision of roads and their upkeep was superior to ours. Our provision of rest /service areas on our motorways in comparision is a cause for national shame IMHO - with the overcrowding of those we have at peak times. Makes me think its a shame we didn't opt for tolls when we established our network - paying in relation to the degree of use seems fairer to me (but recognising its unlikely ever to change here).

Our only tailgating type experience was somewhat caused by inappropriate occupation of the overtaking lane - in my opinion (kept to myself) speaking as a passenger at the time.........

One thing very noticeable, as a pedestrian in towns traffic would stop at the slightest intimation I might be thinking about crossing the road. I knew we were amongst the English when we reached the queue lanes at the Eurotunnel terminus, when it was very much pedestrian beware when out of the car.

[Dave2002]

Recently I drove in southern Italy. Mostly I found it a good experience, even in tricky conditions. At congested junctions one simply eased out very slowly, and then everyone else did the same and with one exception where some loon started hooting at a traffic queue - not aimed at me I think - but what part of "where was the car the driver didn't like supposed to go" didn't he or she understand - as everything was clearly backed up. I liked the autostrada slightly less, but even so it wasn't too terrible. Part of my concerns were due to the car which I was unfamiliar with.

Driver behaviour contrasted well in comparison with British drivers, who are often taking advantage of every opportunity to accelerate into dangerous situations in towns and at junctions, and driving way above the speed limits, flashing lights and tailgating.

I did even drive briefly in Naples - not an experience I'd really relish doing again, but we survived and it wasn't totally dreadful.

[Old Grumpy]

Allegedly, some British tourists are under the impression that radar trap sign indicates the presence of a WiFi hotspot and are stopping to avail themselves of it.

[Nick Armstrong]

huge improvement in road surfaces

I’ve done a lot of kms. in France in the past 6 years, and never fail to be depressed at the uncomfortable, noisy mediocrity of the road surfaces on arrival back in the UK after the comparative luxury of French roads

As far as I can recall, that was the case earlier too but I’ve only been driving regularly to France since the late ‘90s

[smittims]

as an ex-motorist I suppose I'm hors de concours here, but I would like to say how much I enjoyed reading this thread. I've never been to France, though my parents loved it and my sister has a caravan inthe Dordogne. My father always told me 'You'd like France' and I was never sure that he didn't mean that he thought me as lazy as he had thought the French.

[oddoneout]

I’ve done a lot of kms. in France in the past 6 years, and never fail to be depressed at the uncomfortable, noisy mediocrity of the road surfaces on arrival back in the UK after the comparative luxury of French roads

As far as I can recall, that was the case earlier too but I’ve only been driving regularly to France since the late ‘90s

Not all parts of the UK? The times I have been up in Scotland over the last 10 years I was struck by the quality of many of the roads. Even the single track road that links the village where I was staying with family with the main road was well surfaced, and certainly far better than any of the country lanes in my neck of the woods. Might have had something with the blue circle ringed with stars that I kept seeing on boards displaying information about the road improvement schemes...

[oddoneout]

An annual camping trip to France was part of my childhood, and the comments abut poor roads certainly brought back memories. As a very small child I remember sitting in the back of the Land Rover with the canvas rolled up at the back and watching the cloud of dust we often left behind, and being jolted around as we went over ruts and potholes. "Chaussee deformee" (apologies for lack of accents)was one of the first bits of French I learned to read and speak... Over the years the main roads improved and then the lesser ones, as indeed did the vehicles in which we traversed them. The final few trips included an introduction (accidental the first time) to the motorway system.
While it was clear that the French style of driving was rather different from the one in this country something I do remember is the tolerance that the GB sticker often brought - certainly in the early years, possibly helped by interest in the Land Rover. In later years we had a motor caravan which was uncommon in the UK and just about unknown in France at the time and again brought a fair amount of leeway, although it has to be said my father was an excellent driver and any difficulties were not so much from mistakes on his part as those that sometimes arise from driving on the other side of the road with the limited vision that brings. As I got older my mother, who loathed car travel, ceded her front seat to me to be navigator and judge of overtaking possibilities. That started in a limited way before I was 10 which gives me the shivers now.
One incident I have never forgotten was mistiming our attempt to get past Paris and ending up on the Peripherique in the motor caravan as rush hour was starting. A small car shot across our bows on a huge roundabout but misjudged his trajectory and ended up scraping the side of his vehicle. The driver immediately stopped in front of us and we were expecting a torrent of Gallic ire. However what we go was an abjectly apologetic man who was mortified at what he had done and was far more concerned to make sure we had suffered no damage. My father was having kittens being stationary in the midst of a multi-lane roundabout with vehicles passing either side at speed and just wanted to get going, not least because the only "damage" to our vehicle was a large quantity of paint on the bumper; the little car had an impressive wound down most of its driver side. Having assured the other driver there was no need to exchange details for insurance purposes we finally managed to get going again - another somewhat worrying manouevre - rolling start on a race track comes to mind.
The roads in Scotland which was our other main holiday destination, by contract, continued to be a challenge to our various cars.

[Cockney Sparrow]

Not all parts of the UK? The times I have been up in Scotland over the last 10 years I was struck by the quality of many of the roads. Even the single track road that links the village where I was staying with family with the main road was well surfaced, and certainly far better than any of the country lanes in my neck of the woods. Might have had something with the blue circle ringed with stars that I kept seeing on boards displaying information about the road improvement schemes...

Barnett Formula? I drive across the border on local roads multiple times (when in Scotland, three or four times a year) and its noticeable.

[Dave2002]

Barnett Formula? I drive across the border on local roads multiple times (when in Scotland, three or four times a year) and its noticeable.

Near the border maybe. Further north things get a lot worse, and roads deteriorate fast even after resurfacing.Some roads have really nice quiet surfaces for about a quarter mile, then noise and undulations start again. However parts of Surrey have-o holes to rival Scotland.