The North East of England

[Lat-Literal]

You’d be a sales managers dream, Lat.

I can travel, apparently, and occasionally get my feet across thresholds. The latter is not through push but some sort of demeanour which on occasions triggers it and an ongoing sense of curiosity. In the old days, this might have been called blagging your way in although with me it is inadvertent. However, I can't sell. I can't sell anything. I'm totally hopeless at it. At root, I am probably a hobbyist which I now sense society was to a considerable extent several decades ago. We had a naïve and rather basic, paper based, amateurishness. Today, having had more time to reflect, I am drawn in this context to the word "academic". Academic. Not important as it is based only on possibilities. Academic. Used to describe someone who enjoys studying; not connected with practical skills. Academic. Based on ideas and theories and not related to practical effects in real life. This was hobbyism in a different guise.

Then, mildly revolutionary protest which could be quite frequent was slightly appalling for being too actively meaningful. Now, the nature of the conformity that is accepted makes the even milder non-conformism of our earlier times so acutely obvious it is alienating. There have always been small people in small worlds. That never changes. Some of them are among the best people it is possible to find. We, in contrast, were perhaps too big in what was a smaller world while feeling simultaneously small. The students of today feel much bigger but it would be hard not to see them as smaller in a bigger world. Grotesquely so in some ways. Merely monstrous in others. Business living environments now start via tablet in the pram.

I was interested to dig out this article in The Guardian from 2011. It is by a woman who was in the year above me at York and in the same college. She was now seeing her daughter into there. She chatted with the late Adrian Leftwich of whom I was well aware. It not only resonates. It touches on a lot of my ground including the need now to run courses on basic skills for students with A grades. It also refers to an emphasis not on the theory of changing the world - yes indeed, pamphlets were once written in bedrooms alongside even greater irrelevancies and oh what fun - but arguing over any grade that is given with what is the hard sell. I think what struck me most when I went counting was not the numbers regarding ethnicity or gender but of smiles on faces and what I saw of genuine laughter. They were, across the four days, smaller than the number of fingers that are needed to do jazz hands:

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2010/oct/19/york-university-browne-moorhead

[Jonathan]

Thanks Jonathan. So I was approximately right. You say that you were living at/on Southbank. This is not a term with which I am familiar although, again, I am there or thereabouts. The internet implies that Southbank is Race course/Knavesmire ish but I would have thought from your descriptions that you were closer than that to the centre. Were you?

Neither of the two pubs you mention were in Camra's 1984 North Yorkshire guide. I have just checked and it would be another explanation as to why they were not on our radar. This was the period when some breweries had introduced real ale and others had not yet done so. In York, that distinction was most notable in the Sam Smith and John Smith chains. The two going way, way back had been competitive members of the same family - that's real history - but by the 1980s Sams were in the business of the real stuff and Johns were keeping to the 1970s line that it wouldn't ever take off in a substantial way. I mentioned Tetleys earlier - the beer; not the tea - which I seem to recall tasted slightly real while not being real but I may be wrong on that point. Not sure. None of this mentions what were then some stand out names including Theakstons, as they were and Timothy Taylor. It was said that there were 365 pubs in York - one for every day of the week. I wouldn't be at all surprised if in our three years we visited 150 ish but the claim which may have once been true always seemed a bit mythical. I have also heard it applied to other places. Incidentally, those two pubs are not in the 2018 UK Camra guide either but these days any inclusion is so haphazard.

On this visit, I was struck by the number of churches in York. On paper, it would be quite possible to base a trip on visiting these and it would be interesting but I fear that many would be padlocked as is the way now. On walking towards Lawrence Street, I also noticed the sign to the Early Music Centre. I knew where it was located, again approximately. But I wasn't quite sure if it was a place to which the public would at any time be given general admission. Additionally, I took Gavin Mist's e-mail address as it appears on the internet but it didn't seem like my visit coincided with events of the music appreciation society, nor did I get to Halifax College/Edens Court etc. Stanley - I will private message you on some aspects of this.

No problem Lat-Literal. We were within the city walls - on Bishophill and then later on a street nearby from which you can see the walls. You are right - Southbank is just a general name for the area, the racecourse etc. were always called Knavesmire and a bit further along. Bishophill Road (colloquially called Bishy Road) was a quick stroll away with the smallest pub in York down towards the river somewhere off there. We went once, personally I didn't think it was that small!

There are a vast number of churches in York, just around the corner from the Ackhorne is one which has a remnant of the old Roman city gate in it, St Mary Bishophill Junior. It's a very pretty church and worth a visit. We have been to a couple of concerts in the Early Music Centre, I think you are right in that it's not open to the public except for specific events but I may be wrong! Despite living not far at all from the music appreciation society, I never seemed to be free on a Saturday to go. Eventually I might get around to visiting. The last estimate I heard for licensed establishments in York was nearer 450 but obviously that would include bars and restaurants - far too many for one small city IMHO and they keep opening new ones.

[gurnemanz]

https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...rowne-moorhead

Interesting link. I spent only a year at York doing a PGCE at the Language Teaching Centre (1971-1972) and a term of that was in Hull doing teaching practice. We went to a lot of Music Department events. We saw Prof Wilfrid Mellers deliver his famous series of Beatles lectures. John Cage gave a talk. Brecht and his Music - a talk by Fritz Hennenberg from Leipzig. It turned out that York had a link with Leipzig University which included the opportunity to go and teach English there for a year. I took up such an offer -- met my future wife there and the rest is history. I got in touch with Hennenberg while there - he was Chefdramaturg at the Gewandhaus. Still in touch with him by occasional email.

[antongould]

I would welcome comments from other people on the following.

In no particular order:

1. The best sections of walking on the Northumbrian coast
2. The merits or otherwise of the town of Berwick on Tweed and the countryside around it
3. North East mining and shipbuilding museums, especially small ones
4. The main orientation around Newcastle actual - all the key points that would be described as central
5. Any parts of the County Durham coast that might be worth exploring plus any inland rural walking
6. Durham University - are the grounds sufficiently interesting for someone who is simply visiting there?
7. Witton Gilbert and Langley Park

Also Anton, I would be interested to hear if you live in Tynemouth as I wasn't sure on that point.

I have to say that what is being skipped in my thoughts here, much as most of Teesside which I have visited tends to be skipped in favour of North Yorkshire, is the south of Tyneside, Sunderland and similar because my identification, such as it is, is with the north of the Tyne. But I am wondering if this is wholly fair and whether there are aspects there about which I should keep an open mind? Either side of this trip, there was some confusion on recalling Lindisfarne's "Sunderland Boys". It didn't make sense to me given that Alan Hull was from Benwell, Ray Jackson was from Wallsend and its writer Rod Clements was from North Shields. I'm still not sure what to make of this - but they didn't seem to have a problem with it!

I will get to your stuff in toto when I have a weeks holiday starting Sunday Lat ..... but I don’t live in Tynemouth but in what was once called Washington New Town ...... in passing on your 7) why is the very nice cafe in Langley Park called No.4 ... ????

[Lat-Literal]

No problem Lat-Literal. We were within the city walls - on Bishophill and then later on a street nearby from which you can see the walls. You are right - Southbank is just a general name for the area, the racecourse etc. were always called Knavesmire and a bit further along. Bishophill Road (colloquially called Bishy Road) was a quick stroll away with the smallest pub in York down towards the river somewhere off there. We went once, personally I didn't think it was that small!

There are a vast number of churches in York, just around the corner from the Ackhorne is one which has a remnant of the old Roman city gate in it, St Mary Bishophill Junior. It's a very pretty church and worth a visit. We have been to a couple of concerts in the Early Music Centre, I think you are right in that it's not open to the public except for specific events but I may be wrong! Despite living not far at all from the music appreciation society, I never seemed to be free on a Saturday to go. Eventually I might get around to visiting. The last estimate I heard for licensed establishments in York was nearer 450 but obviously that would include bars and restaurants - far too many for one small city IMHO and they keep opening new ones.

Oh, I can see where you were now, Jonathan. Between Nunnery Lane and the river, not so far from Micklegate. I am not sure what the smallest pub in York would be and doubt it would be, say, the Kings Arms which is "iconically river" and has often been flooded. Frankly, I have always been a bit so-so on the place as it is just a bit too obvious and on the tourist trail. Lovely position, though. The Blue Bell is very, very small but it is not especially near the river. I tend to think of it as being at the city centre end of Walmgate - it is quite close to the Early Music Centre - but officially it is on something else. Fossgate? I mention this place for a second time because I am now of the opinion that it has risen to being the best pub in York of the ones I know. It is a gem of a place with a lot of history - some of it sport - and in places has sloping floors. I strongly recommend it to anyone who is visiting York but do go in there at lunchtime. In the evening it is packed because it is so tiny. I just stuck my head in this time, seeing that it was late when I passed it, and it looked a bit claustrophobic. The clientele was not young. Given its fairly central location, it could easily be spoiled but they manage it with sensitivity. There is a big sign outside saying they will not admit any groups.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzXRuNFhxXQ

…..but he has gone:

https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/139..._to_change___/

It was Edith and Edith in my day, an 80-something and a 60-something mother and daughter, of itself deeply unusual, who had a wonderful rod of iron approach to management.

Your reference to 450 drinking establishments also resonates. There was a time on one of my breaks - I can't recall which one - in which I asked of someone about pubs in the area and they replied "do you want a pub or just somewhere where you can drink?" I see this as a 21st Century question. I didn't want just somewhere where I could drink and if it came to that I wouldn't bother with having one. Nor do I do "bars". So it has to be the right package to make it interesting. Closely linked to this, my degree was in History and Politics. I have always been able to justify the politics bit in my head but I have always felt that I fell woefully short on the history to the extent that it feels like a con. I was never a natural historian. Others, though, can see things differently. I have to make all sorts of telephone calls before I go away so as I know what to do on certain aspects of my health should there suddenly be an emergency. One such involved a call to York Hospital's eye department when I mentioned having lived there in the past so that the woman knew that I knew the roads. She said "you did history there - I hope you enjoy it". Either the NHS employs mind readers these days or people who are so intelligent that they can just know by the manner in which someone talks.

[Lat-Literal]

I will get to your stuff in toto when I have a weeks holiday starting Sunday Lat ..... but I don’t live in Tynemouth but in what was once called Washington New Town ...... in passing on your 7) why is the very nice cafe in Langley Park called No.4 ... ????

Ah that's interesting. Thank you Anton. I was reading up last night on Peterlee which appears to be the only new town that was brought about by public pressure. I am wondering if in the question you have raised you have an answer so as to make it a conundrum? This almost feels like a musical Round Britain Quiz. Shortly after I left for other accommodation the so-called notorious breeze blocks of my CLASP prefab in Goodricke College, never to be designated "for a sprouting", there was "Swoon" followed by the critics favourite "Steve McQueen" (1985) and the commercially successful "From Langley Park to Memphis" (1988). The fourth release is debatable. Officially, I guess, it was the audacious "Jordan the Comeback" (1990). Unofficially, it might have been "Protest Songs". So is there a slightly radical, protesting, nature to the café? I sense I am barking up the wrong tree but it reveals the shallowness in me sometimes and my vulnerability in music to hero worshipping. I deleted links as there were too many but for old time's sake (ain't that always the case) I'm bringing these ones back.

Sophistipop sublime from the North of England - a now unfashionable romance which, while somewhat odd, nods to Kern and Porter - Stevie Wonder's harmonica is on the first one too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFrFe2yvtQQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3Rh2hnDtAg*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK-q36ZotrY

Paddy McAloon was born in Durham, England on 7th June 1957. In his youth, he lived in Witton Gilbert, near Langley Park. He trained as a Catholic priest before deciding to commit to a career in music. His group, Prefab Sprout, was formed in 1978 in Newcastle. While much maligned, it has been described as "one of the most beloved British pop bands of the '80s and '90s" and attracts a loyal cult following. It is typified by "are they still here?" very, very long absences. This accentuates mystery. It is said there are hundreds of unreleased albums in the vaults. While as far removed from the zeitgeist as it is possible to be - and commerciality was only ever achieved on the fringes - McAloon is regarded by critics as one of the great songwriters of his era. He has a detached retina and tinnitus. He dedicated album "Crimson/Red to my wife and daughters, the women with whom I am lucky enough to share my life."

*Worth reading the YT comments:

A masterpiece that only improves with time, a zenith, masterpiece, transcending time and beautiful, tears to my eyes, perfection, ahead of its time, underestimated, masterpiece, the greatest, memories, not afraid to use empty spaces, succinct, emotive, perfection, with egregious humility, one of the best records ever recorded......this is not the usual computer stuff. Never let your conscience be harmful to your health, Let no neurotic impulse turn inward on itself, Just say that you were happy, as happy would allow, And tell yourself that that will have to do for now - I mean honestly, how great is that? It deserves to be in the 1940s at their best. That Protest Songs album was outtakes, though, and they'd agree a bit half baked!

A1....ultrafine......Baby Doll (hint) elided into talking...….(I'm alright) bitter Jack. but is Jack her or him?

It's a strange interweaving of not quite colloquialism and it's very, very special, only slightly let down by a lo-fi approach to production and laziness on the finalising of its structure.

They had everything in that sphere.

[antongould]

I will get to your stuff in toto when I have a weeks holiday starting Sunday Lat ..... but I don’t live in Tynemouth but in what was once called Washington New Town ...... in passing on your 7) why is the very nice cafe in Langley Park called No.4 ... ????

Which Knight Of The Realm was an apprentice electrician at Langley Park Colliery. .... ???

[Serial_Apologist]

Which Knight Of The Realm was an apprentice electrician at Langley Park Colliery. .... ???

Lord Prescott???

[nersner]

If I'm looking for walks this is my first stop:https://www.walkingenglishman.com/homepage.htm
Craster to Dunstanburgh Castle is probably the most famous although I like to wander round Howick Hall Arboretum just to the south.
Of the castles Warkworth, down by Amble, is IMHO clearly the best followed by Preston Pele Tower. Berwick is definitely worth a day pottering around.

[antongould]

Lord Prescott???

A Welsh Bar Steward surely S_A

[Serial_Apologist]

A Welsh Bar Steward surely S_A

Hmmm. I'm never quite sure: by birthright, yes; but his accent is very Yorkshirefied, I've always thought.

[antongould]

Hmmm. I'm never quite sure: by birthright, yes; but his accent is very Yorkshirefied, I've always thought.

Yorkshire is the North Midlands .....

[Lat-Literal]

Which Knight Of The Realm was an apprentice electrician at Langley Park Colliery. .... ???

Sir Bobby Robson.

And it's got a mining museum too.

These are the kind of clues I like.

If I'm looking for walks this is my first stop:https://www.walkingenglishman.com/homepage.htm
Craster to Dunstanburgh Castle is probably the most famous although I like to wander round Howick Hall Arboretum just to the south.
Of the castles Warkworth, down by Amble, is IMHO clearly the best followed by Preston Pele Tower. Berwick is definitely worth a day pottering around.

Thank you very much nerner for your suggestions which are interesting and helpful.

[antongould]

Sir Bobby Robson.

And it's got a mining museum too.

These are the kind of clues I like.


Thank you very much nerner for your suggestions which are interesting and helpful.

Excellent Lat and what number did he wear on his shirt for Fulham, WBA and England ..... ????

[Lat-Literal]

Excellent Lat and what number did he wear on his shirt for Fulham, WBA and England ..... ????

Number 4.

Seems slightly odd, that, but...……!

(His playing career ended when I was 5 so I am using that as my excuse for vagueness - I don't go to the cinema so I haven't seen the full film yet)