What Was Your Most Recent Bottle of Wine?

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  • vinteuil
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 12815

    Originally posted by Barbirollians View Post
    Yes the continuing with the same or similar red wine is the reason why the French go main, cheese, dessert in that order.
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    ...except of course there are cheeses which are much better with white wine! We like having both white and red available if there is a range of cheeses on offer


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    • french frank
      Administrator/Moderator
      • Feb 2007
      • 30281

      Originally posted by vinteuil View Post
      ...except of course there are cheeses which are much better with white wine! .
      As there are main courses which go much better with white (in a domestic situation where a fish entrée doesn't routinely precede the main meat course). Careful planning needed if more than one wine is being served. With French cheeses, at any rate, any delicate-tasting cheese is worthy of a white. Not sure** it would (ideally) be a pudding wine though so the problem still arises.

      ** I am sure: it wouldn't be a pudding wine

      Second thoughts: I have been offered a sweet dessert wine with some cheese in a French bistro (here in Bristol, but run by a French couple). Not my taste though. Can't remember what the cheese was.
      It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

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      • vinteuil
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 12815

        Originally posted by french frank View Post

        Second thoughts: I have been offered a sweet dessert wine with some cheese in a French bistro (here in Bristol, but run by a French couple). Not my taste though. Can't remember what the cheese was.
        ... well, sauternes is a classic with roquefort

        And as the festive party season is fast approaching, so is the quintessential tradition of indulging in wine with blue cheese until one might burst...


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        • french frank
          Administrator/Moderator
          • Feb 2007
          • 30281

          Originally posted by vinteuil View Post
          ... well, sauternes is a classic with roquefort

          And as the festive party season is fast approaching, so is the quintessential tradition of indulging in wine with blue cheese until one might burst...
          Yes, I think that might have been it. But maybe better with a stronger-tasting cheese like roquefort? That said, I regularly pair quite strong-tasting Spanish blue cheeses with manzanilla - but I don't think I could face a sweet sherry with them. The only way to find out …
          It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

          Comment

          • Barbirollians
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 11679

            Roquefort and sauternes is a classic. Goats cheeses are also renowned to go with Loire Sauvignon Blanc. The basic French approach however is red wine with cheese - even if some of them may kill the wine. Epoisses for example and red burgundy are a classic match - the cheese tends to dominate.

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            • french frank
              Administrator/Moderator
              • Feb 2007
              • 30281

              Originally posted by Barbirollians View Post
              The basic French approach however is red wine with cheese - even if some of them may kill the wine.
              I prefer this approach. With all these things, to my mind, the best approach is your own taste. Sometimes the "rules" suit my taste, sometimes they don't. It's good to know what those rules, traditions customs etc are but if ever there was a case of "Rules are made to be broken" this is it: food and drink.

              I liked the idea (in the linked article) that port and stilton go together, not because port is a red wine, but because it is a sweet, fortified wine. Even a non-fortified Sauternes can be quite strong. That would make pairing a Sauternes with Roquefort a good match.
              It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

              Comment

              • vinteuil
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 12815

                Originally posted by french frank View Post
                With all these things, to my mind, the best approach is your own taste. Sometimes the "rules" suit my taste, sometimes they don't. It's good to know what those rules, traditions customs etc are but if ever there was a case of "Rules are made to be broken" this is it: food and drink.
                .
                ... of course. The absurd scene in 'From Russia With Love' where Bond thinks he identifies someone as 'not a gent' bicoz he orders a red wine with his fish - the whole point of an English gent is that in matters like this he does what he likes and couldn't give a toss for the 'rules'. A clear sign, if further were needed, that Bond with all his pretensions, is decidedly non-U, not a gent but a bounder who tries too hard





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                Last edited by vinteuil; 15-07-21, 11:35.

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                • french frank
                  Administrator/Moderator
                  • Feb 2007
                  • 30281

                  Originally posted by vinteuil View Post
                  ... of course. The absurd scene in 'From Russia With Love' where Bond thinks he identifies someone as 'not a gent' bicoz he orders a red wine with his fish - the whole point of an English gent is that in matters like this he does what he likes and couldn't give a toss for the 'rules'. A clear sign, if further were needed, that Bond with all his pretensions, is decidedly non-U, not a gent but a bounder who tries too hard.
                  Of course, a 'gent', having been served with Bordeaux with his poached sole, might venture, "My compliments … nice drop of Saint-Émilion." He would not add, "Would go a treat with bit of roast lamb."

                  But I think also it depends on how the fish is cooked. Brandade of cod? Sole ménagère? Escoffier has fish recipes where he uses red and white wine. I see for 'Sole au vin rouge' he says: "Proceed as for the sole sur le plat but substitute red wine for white wine and add 1 tablespoon of meat jelly."
                  It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                  Comment

                  • vinteuil
                    Full Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 12815

                    Originally posted by french frank View Post

                    But I think also it depends on how the fish is cooked. Brandade of cod? Sole ménagère? Escoffier has fish recipes where he uses red and white wine. I see for 'Sole au vin rouge' he says: "Proceed as for the sole sur le plat but substitute red wine for white wine and add 1 tablespoon of meat jelly."
                    ... indeed so. In one of my late mother's cook books I find, for example, recipes for -

                    sole campanoff : poached and coated with half white wine sauce and half red wine sauce, a thread of victoria sauce to finish

                    sole bourguignonne : poached in red wine, garnished with small onions and mushroom heads, coat with red wine sauce made from the cooking stock

                    sole bordelaise : poached in red wine with chopped shallots, coated with reduced stock mixed with bordelaise sauce

                    sole archiduc : poached with madeira, whisky, port wine, and fish stock, reduce the cooking liquor, add butter and cream and brunoise of vegetables and truffles, coat with sauce

                    sole rouennaise : poached with red wine and shallots, garnished with oysters and poached mussels, mushrooms, shrimps, coated with the reduced stock, mixed with meat glaze and butter, surround with trussed crayfish, fried smelts and croutons



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                    Last edited by vinteuil; 15-07-21, 13:56.

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                    • Ein Heldenleben
                      Full Member
                      • Apr 2014
                      • 6779

                      Originally posted by vinteuil View Post
                      ... of course. The absurd scene in 'From Russia With Love' where Bond thinks he identifies someone as 'not a gent' bicoz he orders a red wine with his fish - the whole point of an English gent is that in matters like this he does what he likes and couldn't give a toss for the 'rules'. A clear sign, if further were needed, that Bond with all his pretensions, is decidedly non-U, not a gent but a bounder who tries too hard





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                      When I used to go to France ( most years for 67 to 2018 ) it was quite common to see people drinking red wine with fish . Also drinking quite expensive vintages young and serving both red and white at what English connoisseurs would consider the wrong temperature. They are so much less snobby about the whole business and , on the quiet , stick a lot away - particularly at those open air Fêtes you get in the South West

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                      • french frank
                        Administrator/Moderator
                        • Feb 2007
                        • 30281

                        Originally posted by Heldenleben
                        They are so much less snobby about the whole business.
                        And why would they not be snobby about what is a daily business, anyway? I admit I have one glass for white wine and another for red, but I think that's very 'English/snobby'. My friend had a couple of French friends staying with her, and she asked them whether they used different glasses for red and white at home and they looked bewildered. No, they just had wine glasses.
                        It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                        Comment

                        • vinteuil
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 12815

                          Originally posted by french frank View Post
                          And why would they [ not ] be snobby about what is a daily business, anyway? I admit I have one glass for white wine and another for red, but I think that's very 'English/snobby'. My friend had a couple of French friends staying with her, and she asked them whether they used different glasses for red and white at home and they looked bewildered. No, they just had wine glasses.
                          ... yes, there can be an English snob element about wine. But also, there are ways in which the English are sometimes more clued-up about wine than the French. Not just because of the hundreds of years of English involvement in the claret trade - but also because the (non-Parisian) French often tend to know about the wines from their own area, but are remarkable higgorant about wines from elsewhere (the Italians, of course, are still worse in this regard). Precisely because we are not really a serious wine producer (I know, I know) many Brits know more about a range of French/Italian/other wines than many a French or Italian person might

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                          • Ein Heldenleben
                            Full Member
                            • Apr 2014
                            • 6779

                            Originally posted by french frank View Post
                            And why would they not be snobby about what is a daily business, anyway? I admit I have one glass for white wine and another for red, but I think that's very 'English/snobby'. My friend had a couple of French friends staying with her, and she asked them whether they used different glasses for red and white at home and they looked bewildered. No, they just had wine glasses.
                            There are those expensive Reidel glasses which I think are different for Burgundy and claret . I just don’t see what difference it makes …

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                            • Ein Heldenleben
                              Full Member
                              • Apr 2014
                              • 6779

                              Originally posted by vinteuil View Post
                              ... yes, there can be an English snob element about wine. But also, there are ways in which the English are sometimes more clued-up about wine than the French. Not just because of the hundreds of years of English involvement in the claret trade - but also because the (non-Parisian) French often tend to know about the wines from their own area, but are remarkable higgorant about wines from elsewhere (the Italians, of course, are still worse in this regard). Precisely because we are not really a serious wine producer (I know, I know) many Brits know more about a range of French/Italian/other wines than many a French or Italian person might

                              .
                              True the British must drink the widest range of wines in the world ….

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                              • vinteuil
                                Full Member
                                • Nov 2010
                                • 12815

                                Originally posted by Heldenleben View Post
                                There are those expensive Reidel glasses which I think are different for Burgundy and claret . I just don’t see what difference it makes …
                                ... yes riedel are just absurd - different glasses for nebbiolo, merlot, chardonnay, cab: sauv:, pinot noir, shiraz, and on and on. Riediculous

                                If your wine could choose a glass, it would be RIEDEL! Designing & producing high-quality glasses and decanters since 1756 for the enjoyment of wine, spirits & more | RIEDEL United Kingdom


                                But I don't go to the other extreme adopted by English friends settled in Italy for the last thirty years who drink everything from duralex tumblers. I do like thin glass and a stem, and I still like a flute for bubbles even if the latest thinking is that champagne is best from a 'normal' burgundy glass...


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