The Cheese Board

[Roger Webb]

I was waiting for you to come up with an 18th c. quote, monsieur. I'm disappointed it ain't French though. The wisdom is generally that the parts of the vegetable or fruit that get the most sun are richest in nutrients. Not having a compost bin, I eat any parts that are, in a physical sense - eatable.

Raining, I got soaked, the deli had no saucisson whatsoever and the only French cheese was a piece of Brie de Meaux. Added to that, the only wine of the kind I sought was also a Jurançon like the Coop's, but costing more than twice the amount (and I'd thought £7.25 for a ½ bottle was a good price to pay). Still, it looks as if it might do well with the Roquefort, even if only 13% abv. And the bread has turned out well and has had time to cool. Always look on the bright side of life

The Brie de Meaux is a charming cheese, but I think the Jurançon is better suited to the ewe's milk richness of the Rochefort, although, as discussed, not as well as a more substantial 'sticky'.
I Think the perfect accompaniment to 'northern' cows milk creamy cheeses: Brie, Camembert, Pont l'Eveque, Neufchatel (although Valentine's day is passed!) require a dryish Loire wine or a Muscadet Sévre et Maine Sur Lie, or, hard to find here, Gros Plant - long considered beyond the pale, but making a comeback.

[Old Grumpy]

Sounds good to me...

...what time is it served?

P.S. true to stereotype we're having rosbif tonight. Will be having some of this too! Followed by cheese, of course.

[french frank]

Not quite sure whether we have a suitable thread but:

I was lent Dominique Bouchait's Fromages and was interested to see that in 2010 the French 'gastronomic meal' was recognised by UNESCO as an Intangible Cultural Heritage of Humanity:

"The gastronomic meal should respect a fixed structure, commencing with an apéritif (drinks before the meal) and ending with liqueurs, containing in between at least four successive courses, namely a starter, fish and/or meat with vegetables, cheese and dessert."

[french frank]

"Auvergne you had enough of zis French cheese"

Pas possible :-)

[eighthobstruction]

.....I'm surprise that anybody has not come along and written "Auvergne you had enough of zis French cheese"....but ah....bof alor...."Fromage?" ...."No from somewhere else"

[vinteuil]

... I think that in French it always has its artickle -

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auvergne

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[french frank]

But why not *the Provence???

I cannot answer that question. I did look it up to check whether Auvergne was like 'the Ukraine', which we don't say any more. But it seems that it's used currently with and without the the, which probably means people are as uncertain as I was.

[vinteuil]

Fourme d'Ambert, a blue cheese from the Auvergne (why is it the Auvergne, I wonder?)

... why not 'the' Auvergne? On recent holidays I have stayed in the Ardennes, the Bourbonnais, the Jura, the Ardeche, the Midi, the Cote d'Azur, the Vaucluse, the Luberon...

But why not *the Provence???

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[french frank]

Today's delight from the deli was Fourme d'Ambert, a blue cheese from the Auvergne (why is it the Auvergne, I wonder?). This is said to be one of the oldest French cheeses, allegedly dating back to Roman times; it's called semi-hard, but I would have called it semi soft. It's softer, gentler than many blues, without the distinctive tangy sharpness. I found it went admirably with the hawthorn jelly, but when the stronger Spanish cabrales arrived I switched over to, now what's it called? Those long, whitish stems ... sillery? cullery? (I like to spare feelings when I can!). Anyway, that went better than the sweeter jelly. Gherkins and olives go well with the stronger cheeses, but not the jelly.

Interesting etymological point: the word fourme has the same root as fromage and formaggio, referring to the 'shape' or form of the cylindrical moulds. And fourme is actually closer to the Italian word than the French.

[Pulcinella]

That stuff from those tubes was, to use that great French word, "dégueulasse", which seems fitting to describe what to me always smelt of - let's not mince words here - sick. Aged Parmesan (of at least 24 months vintage) or (my favourite) Parmigiano Rosso, made from the milk of, surprise, surprise, "red cows" is a truly great cheese, alas with a price tag increasingly to match these days. But, broken into bite-size pieces, it makes for a great accompaniment to something like fino - or maybe amontillado sherry. The cheese acts as a fine counterpoint to the slight sweetness of the wine. Plus, the other great use to which one can put parmesan rinds (fresh or frozen) is to add one (or two) of them to meat ragù or, indeed, any kind of stew/casserole or thick bean soup.

That was the staff canteen reaction.
We were given two helpings of dessert in compensation, but the (in my case permanent) damage had been done.

[oddoneout]

Interesting, yes. It looks as if they might have used it in the context if they had omitted 'towards', though the OED says:

"[Influenced by career v.2] To rush headlong, to hurtle, esp. with an unsteady motion. Chiefly U.S." But I think we probably prefer the King's English. Even though 'to careen' means to heel over, of a ship, that isn't exactly appropriate here.

Anyway, It's good to see that pecorino is held in high esteem.

On 'entre la poire et le fromage', I imagined the pudding came last and you followed the good red wine with something sweet to finish.

Yes, I think the element of side to side motion, whether US or UK usage, means it wasn't perhaps the best choice. The whole article did read a bit as if it had been written by someone from across the pond which would make sense if it is this John Henderson https://johnhendersontravel.com/about-john-henderson/ who is in Italy but originally from USA, rather than the BBC journalist of the same name.
I was intrigued by this

The artichoke is deep fried on a bed of thick pecorino sauce

which seems a culinary impossibility, so I think "served on" was perhaps omitted? Reading up about deep-fried artichokes was another "well I didn't know that" bit of learning. https://memoriediangelina.com/2023/0...i-alla-giudia/

[french frank]

... we've been here before -

How do you do that? You're always doin' it!

[HighlandDougie]

I'm sadly not a fan of Parmesan (horrid experience in a staff canteen ages ago!) but, being a Lancashire lad, I've found that this from Aldi behaves very similarly in dishes I use it for.

https://groceries.aldi.co.uk/en-GB/p-specially-selected-handmade-mature-farmhouse-tasty-lancashire-200g/4088600515151

I can cope with parmesan shavings; it's the texture and smell of the grated stuff as it melts as a topping or is used in sauces that I can't stand. Those disgusting Kraft tubes! Aargh!

That stuff from those tubes was, to use that great French word, "dégueulasse", which seems fitting to describe what to me always smelt of - let's not mince words here - sick. Aged Parmesan (of at least 24 months vintage) or (my favourite) Parmigiano Rosso, made from the milk of, surprise, surprise, "red cows" is a truly great cheese, alas with a price tag increasingly to match these days. But, broken into bite-size pieces, it makes for a great accompaniment to something like fino - or maybe amontillado sherry. The cheese acts as a fine counterpoint to the slight sweetness of the wine. Plus, the other great use to which one can put parmesan rinds (fresh or frozen) is to add one (or two) of them to meat ragù or, indeed, any kind of stew/casserole or thick bean soup.

[Old Grumpy]

Interesting, yes. It looks as if they might have used it in the context if they had omitted 'towards', though the OED says:

"[Influenced by career v.2] To rush headlong, to hurtle, esp. with an unsteady motion. Chiefly U.S." But I think we probably prefer the King's English. Even though 'to careen' means to heel over, of a ship...

I guess one might careen towards capsizing.

[vinteuil]

'entre la poire et le fromage', I imagined the pudding came last and you followed the good red wine with something sweet to finish.

... we've been here before -

So I've probably given my explanation for the French custom (correct!) to have the cheese course after the main course and not after the pudding as many in Angleterre would have it. If push comes to shove the same good red wine can be served for a main course and the cheese, but for the pudding a sweet dessert wine is required. Impossible to alternate red, dessert, red again. I'm not sure that a pudding wine is much of a thing in the UK. Or even wine-drinking judging by my observations in restaurants (which cannot here be described ).

... well, there are other ways to finish a meal. At traditional English dinners you might have after the main courses - pudding, followed by cheese, followed by a savoury (devils on horseback, scotch woodcock &c), followed by port & nuts, followed by coffee & digestifs. I have been at university meals and elsewhere which followed that pattern.

At the British Embassy in Paris the diplomatic niceties were solved by having the cheese and puddings brought to the table at the same time, leaving the guests to decide whether they wanted to follow British or French customs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savoury_(dish)

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