Old photographs

[Nick Armstrong]

With Anna's permission, I'm copying here this great photo of her forebears - another kind of history... Talk about vanished eras...

Still having trouble thinking that they have whimberries in them baskets, not bootleg moonshine and a couple of concealed revolvers...

Here are the young men of Grandmother's family (all miners) after collecting whimberries up the mountains of South Wales on a Sunday afternoon (actually, they look like a bunch of ruffians!) Unsure when photo was taken - 1920s?

[mangerton]

Looking at Anna's family picture has made me spend the last couple of hours or so looking at my own collection of old family pictures. There was an amazing collection of these at my parents' house, and a few years ago I scanned them and (as far as I could) indexed them. Sadly there are quite a few where it is unlikely that I'll ever find out who the subjects are. The one shown here is a case in point. Second from the left is my paternal grandfather, but I have no idea who the others are. Neither of the women is my grandmother.

This is a plea.... don't make the same mistake that my family did. Get those old pictures out, and get them labelled while there are still people around who know who's who.

On a related note, get out and get snapping in your neighbourhood. Pictures taken today will have historical interest in twenty years, possibly less!

(Note to mods: might this sit better in a new thread entitled, eg, "Old pictures"? Warning I could bore for Britain on this!)

[Nick Armstrong]

Old photographs

Your wish is my lobster, mangey

Agreed about getting older family members to identify who's who. Luckily I have an aunt who did a good job with the older generation. Not sure I have any scanned ones though

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

This is a plea.... don't make the same mistake that my family did. Get those old pictures out, and get them labelled while there are still people around who know who's who.

A sound piece of advice. I have written an extensive family history with a large number of old (and very old) photographs. Fortunately, my father and uncle did sterling work in ensuring that these were labelled as far as possible. When I eventually get the hang of using Photobucket, I'll bore you all with a few.

[Stillhomewardbound]

There's a great Alan Bennett tv film set about this period about a cycling group that go to Fountains Abbey on a trip. Is it 'Our Day', perhaps, but this sets me in mind of it.

There's that thing of vintage pictures where the subjects are clearly of another time, but such is the quality of this picture and the apparent formality that one feels able to step into and start a conversation with this group.

From my own archives: I have probably shared this before but I never tire of seeing it, or showing it, for that matter.

[Richard Tarleton]

Great thread Cali, and great photos Anna and Mangerton (ed. and SHB - only just seen yours - lovely!). Like Mangerton I could bore for England on my family history, but I hope what follows is worth a couple of minutes of anybody's time.



The scene is a family wedding in Madras in 1922. The happy () couple are my grandparents. The parents of the bride are seated. He (my great grandfather) is an American artist, William Snelling Hadaway, who in a remarkable life spent 20 years as Principal of the School of Arts and Crafts in Madras. I wrote the Wiki entry on his life (no idea who did the art bit). Extreme right, with face like thunder (doubtless at having to wear that outfit) is the bride's younger sister - she qualified as a doctor, most unusual for the time, was an army doctor in World War 2, and worked in public health in London until the 1970s. She it was who introduced me to opera and good food and wine. Her elder brother (standing next to her) was destined to spend WW2 in a Japanese prisoner of war camp.

[Nick Armstrong]

Some great photos already! Loved seeing the bikes, mangey! And the Indian photo, RT... yes, the younger sister ... those wretched shoes must have had something to do with her expression .

Shb: hadn't seen that before... McKennas all?

[amateur51]

Great thread Cali, and great photos Anna and Mangerton (ed. and SHB - only just seen yours - lovely!). Like Mangerton I could bore for England on my family history, but I hope what follows is worth a couple of minutes of anybody's time.



The scene is a family wedding in Madras in 1922. The happy () couple are my grandparents. The parents of the bride are seated. He (my great grandfather) is an American artist, William Snelling Hadaway, who in a remarkable life spent 20 years as Principal of the School of Arts and Crafts in Madras. I wrote the Wiki entry on his life (no idea who did the art bit). Extreme right, with face like thunder (doubtless at having to wear that outfit) is the bride's younger sister - she qualified as a doctor, most unusual for the time, was an army doctor in World War 2, and worked in public health in London until the 1970s. She it was who introduced me to opera and good food and wine. Her elder brother (standing next to her) was destined to spend WW2 in a Japanese prisoner of war camp.

Am I right that Mr Hadaway is wearing an orthopaedic device on his left foot? It appears to be open-toed - or this that just reflection?

[Stillhomewardbound]

The scene is a family wedding in Madras in 1922. The happy () couple are my grandparents. The parents of the bride are seated. He (my great grandfather) is an American artist, William Snelling Hadaway, who in a remarkable life spent 20 years as Principal of the School of Arts and Crafts in Madras. I wrote the Wiki entry on his life (no idea who did the art bit). Extreme right, with face like thunder (doubtless at having to wear that outfit) is the bride's younger sister - she qualified as a doctor, most unusual for the time, was an army doctor in World War 2, and worked in public health in London until the 1970s. She it was who introduced me to opera and good food and wine. Her elder brother (standing next to her) was destined to spend WW2 in a Japanese prisoner of war camp.

You know, pictures that are being taken today, even the good ones, rarely come close to the quality of a large glass plate image such as this. It's also likely that there chances of survival will not be as good as reproductions of yesterday. Digital platforms are notoriously unstable.

It's marvellous that there are such strong stories within. A perfect portrait of the times which it occurs to me have no label. We speak of the Edwardian , the Victorian and, quite commonly, for our own times now, the Elizabethan years but where of the 'George V Years'. I mean, they were the years of George V obviously but we speak of the Georgian era only in the sense of the 18th Century Georges.

I merely ask.





As for my brood ...





These are the McKenna family of 1911, or thereabouts. It's my Great Grandfather (T.P. McKenna) in the hat and his eleven children. Their mother, Sarah Clinton, had died age 34, her health having declined after the birth of her last child (is it any wonder?).

The lady is one Anna Schneibel, a part German/Irish lady from Louisiana in the US. She had been married to a cousin of my great-grandfather, who was a surgeon in the American Army, but was widowed when he jumped too early from a train and collided with a telegraph pole.

In mutual consolation of each other a correspondence began between them and at some point she resolved to travel to the Ireland her pen-pal had told her so much of. She never returned and resolved to become the new Mrs.McKenna. As she was happy to recall ... 'He never proposed to me. I proposed to him!'

My grandfather is behind his father on the right and that's the first you'll see of the family resemblance.

The very good looking, tall lad at the back (Nicholas McKenna) would have enjoyed a fine career in medicine, it was said, but he was taken by TB at just sixteen.

My grandfather, his brother John (dead centre at the back) and young TP (the seated figure in the front with a smock, yes, it's a boy) would grow up to become active volunteers in the Irish Republican Army with my grandfather acting as local intelligence officer for the Meath Brigade and reporting directly to Michael Collins.

Young TP would become a medical student and a best friend of the folk-figure Kevin Barry. They ended up on the run in the Dublin mountains for weeks. Barry was famously executed by the British. Young TP evaded capture but he did not emerge unscathed as he also contracted TB in his time in the mountains. He survived to become a Lieutenant-Commander in the first army of the Irish Free State, but his failing health saw him emigrate to the Argentine and the warmer, drier airs. He died aged just 26 in the new Cordoba. (Unrealised ambition will be to visit his grave one day).

An aside here: he died on 13th February 1929, but his name was continued in the birth of my father the following september by way of remembrance who, in 2011, also died on 13th February. Spooky!

Amongst the ladies are my great-aunts Gabriel, May and Angela who were a familiar part of our early years.

'Auntie Angela' (seated, furthest right) as we knew her (to whom my father was perhaps closer than his own mother) lived with us for three years until our move to London. A little over a year after that she was tragically and fatally knocked down on a crossing in Co.Dublin.

They all now rest in peace, we hope. along with all the faithful departed.

[Nick Armstrong]

Thanks so much for that absorbing explanation!

My grandfather is behind his father on the right and that's the first you'll see of the family resemblance

Definitely!

The very good looking, tall lad at the back (Nicholas McKenna) would have enjoyed a fine career in medicine, it was said, but he was taken by TB at just sixteen.

Heartbreaking.

Incidentally, that dates the photo as around 1905/6, rather than 1911 (presuming Nicholas is around 14/15 in the photo), as the memorial tells us he lost his young life in 1907...

(Sorry - it's the lawyer in me....)

[Richard Tarleton]

Am I right that Mr Hadaway is wearing an orthopaedic device on his left foot? It appears to be open-toed - or this that just reflection?

I think it may just be reflection, Ams - never heard about a problem and foot OK in other pics

[Mary Chambers]

Wonderful photos all. I am fascinated by the dolls in stilhomewardbound's family picture. They are so like the dolls I used to find in my grandmother's attic.

I have family photos dating back to the nineteenth century. I know who most of them are - when my mother was in her mid-80s she labelled as many as she could, and also wrote copious family history notes.

[MrGongGong]

You know, pictures that are being taken today, even the good ones, rarely come close to the quality of a large glass plate image such as this. It's also likely that there chances of survival will not be as good as reproductions of yesterday. Digital platforms are notoriously unstable.

Actually , by putting them here you have probably ensured that they will survive for ever !

[amateur51]

Many thanks for your remarkable photo but also for your enthralling narration, shb. What a family - sheer size of it for a start! - and all the stories, some heartbreaking as Cali says but others equally fascinating if less romantic perhaps. Your effort is greatly appreciated, shb!

[Richard Tarleton]

What a story SHB - Michael Collins, Kevin Barry....There's a strong resemblance if I may say so between your father and young TP in the back row?

A perfect portrait of the times which it occurs to me have no label. We speak of the Edwardian , the Victorian and, quite commonly, for our own times now, the Elizabethan years but where of the 'George V Years'. I mean, they were the years of George V obviously but we speak of the Georgian era only in the sense of the 18th Century Georges.

Yes "the Twenties" doesn't really do it justice. My great grandfather was really a figure in the late Arts and Crafts movement, and this was very much the ethos he brought to the job in Madras, along with an enthusiasm for local arts and crafts - his treatises on "Cotton Printing in the Madras Presidency" and one on Indian metalwork are in the V&A library. Another layer behind that picture: his earlier brief marriage and elopement from Massachusetts to Italy aged 21 with a much older lady artist was never spoken of - his parents (father the accountant/librettist) arranged quickie divorce. He told his younger daughter in later years but even then not the full story, which was that his first two children with my great grandmother (in the picture) were born before they were married. They had travelled to England as man and wife on a doctored passport, had two children, and were only quietly married in St Pancras before their third child appeared . My grandmother never knew she was born out of wedlock

Only research into births, marriages and deaths, passenger lists etc. brings this sort of skeleton to light. Writing up the family history is one of the most rewarding things I've done in recent years, with the help of a genealogist friend. And yes, a few whose lives were tragically cut short, one way or another....