BBC Three

[Dave2002]

Does this mean that R3 and other radio stations will be able to return to Freeview in Scotland?

Possibly not - depends what the admin people decide to do I guess.

If BBC 3 is currently broadcast in SD only in Scotland, then it should be possible to allocate the spectrum for 3-5 digital channels I guess, which would get some of the stations on ff's list back.They could perhaps squeeze more in by reducing the audio quality - increasing the level of compression - reducing the compressed bit rate.

If BBC 3 is currently available in HD in Scotland, then I think there should be enough spectrum, if re-allocated, to get all the stations back on, and with very little audio degradation.

Technically these things are possible, but whether they will happen is anyone's guess.

[Gordon]

Looks as if the saving of transmission cost is not to be made - the space is to be given over to a BBC1+1 service!!

[Dave2002]

Looks as if the saving of transmission cost is not to be made - the space is to be given over to a BBC1+1 service!!

I suspected that there'd be no saving. Administrators! Frances would probably also reiterate her comment on numerate people.

[Honoured Guest]

The BBC has never said there is to be any saving at all in total transmission costs. That was speculation by posters on this forum, the day before the announcement.

[Dave2002]

The BBC has never said there is to be any saving at all in total transmission costs. That was speculation by posters on this forum, the day before the announcement.

However, the BBC (Tony Hall) did say that there would be cost savings, and as far as I can see they haven't really spelled out how. Details seem to be something that people in high up places don't seem to concern themselves with, or at least they often give that impression. I would have liked to see a balance sheet.

[Honoured Guest]

Dave2002, Tony Hall said, the news reports said, and posters on this thread have said that:

BBC3'S ANNUAL BUDGET FOR "CONTENT" WILL BE REDUCED FROM £85MILLION TO £25MILLION

That is how! Does it need to be spelled out differently? It's now up to the BBC3 Controller to decide exactly how to spend this reduced content budget. Whatever the eventual "detail", the Controller's annual spend on content is to be capped at £25million!

I assume that "content" costs are made up of two elements: (i) production costs of new programming; (ii) fees payable for (a) broadcasting programmes and (b) iPlayer availability of programmes. Please could someone confirm this or correct me if I'm wrong.

There will be fewer new BBC3 programmes in future, so total production costs will be lower - THIS IS A SAVING.

BBC3 will no longer broadcast programmes, so BBC3 will no longer pay any fees for broadcasting programmes - THIS IS A SAVING.

BBC3 will be an iPlayer-only service, so there will still be fees payable for iPlayer availability, but there's no detail yet about how the number or mix of iPlayer programmes on the future online-only BBC3 Collection will differ from now - MAY OR MAY NOT BE A SAVING.

All new "longform" BBC3 programming will be broadcast subsequently on BBC1 or BBC2 after 10.35pm, but I assume the fees for these broadcasts will be payable from the content budgets of BBC1 and BBC2, and won't be additional costs because these programmes will be broadcast in lieu of the current broadcasts on those tv channels - COST NEUTRAL.

£30million of the saving on BBC3 content will be reinvested in BBC1 drama.

There will be some additional costs in setting up BBC3 as an online entity.

[Dave2002]

OK - I see - "Top down management"!

"And in one stroke he cut the deficit!"

[french frank]

I assume that "content" costs are made up of two elements: (i) production costs of new programming; (ii) fees payable for (a) broadcasting programmes and (b) iPlayer availability of programmes. Please could someone confirm this or correct me if I'm wrong.

The detail in these matters usually remains opaque. The £85m mentioned as BBC Three's budget is the service licence budget (though it actually spent £89.7m on content last year). But on top of that there are the additional distribution/infrastructure costs which took the total spend for the year to £121.7m. It's not clear how much of that additional £32m is also saved; not all of it because some are the channel's contribution to BBC central costs which would still have to be paid by someone.

The £30m reinvested in BBC One doesn't look like a saving at all. I think Tony Hall specified that the £25m would be on content alone, so of the remaining £30m potential saving there might be setting up and operational costs to come out of it.

From what was said, this move has been on the cards for a while anyway, and it would be ridiculous if the Trust took any notice of petitions. They can't expect management to run the corporation and reject their major proposals every time. Danny Cohen said he had no intention of marching his men to the top of the hill only to march them back down again!

[mangerton]

OK - I see - "Top down management"!

"And in one stroke he cut the deficit!"

This reminds me of Head Teeth, aka "old at-a-stroke".

[teamsaint]

What on earth is the point of BBC1 +1 when we have iplayer?

The whole business looks a right shambles .

[Honoured Guest]

But on top of that there are the additional distribution/infrastructure costs which took the total spend for the year to £121.7m. It's not clear how much of that additional £32m is also saved; not all of it because some are the channel's contribution to BBC central costs which would still have to be paid by someone.

The saving is on content. I don't think there's any BBC saving on distribution/infrastructure because the BBC3 broadcast channel is to be still used, for CBeebies (from 19:00 to 20:00) and for BBC1+1 (after 20:00).

The £30m reinvested in BBC One doesn't look like a saving at all. I think Tony Hall specified that the £25m would be on content alone, so of the remaining £30m potential saving there might be setting up and operational costs to come out of it.

Yes, that's all correct!

From what was said, this move has been on the cards for a while anyway, and it would be ridiculous if the Trust took any notice of petitions. They can't expect management to run the corporation and reject their major proposals every time. Danny Cohen said he had no intention of marching his men to the top of the hill only to march them back down again!

The alternative is either further "salami-slicing", which BBC management say is no longer possible if quality of everything is to be maintained, or cutting out some other service. But further cuts are required in the same year as the proposed end of broadcast BBC3, and yet more in future years, so BBC management must by now be working their way down a list of services to be cut, with broadcast BBC3 at the top. Other services will be cut very shortly after broadcast BBC3, but haven't yet been announced. If the BBC Trust rejects this BBC3 proposal, then the other service cuts on the list will just be promoted towards the top of the list, to be cut sooner.

[Honoured Guest]

What on earth is the point of BBC1 +1 when we have iplayer?

The whole business looks a right shambles .

The "point" is that the vast majority of programme viewing is still via linear broadcast channels, not iPlayer or home recording, etc., and there's significant viewing of the existing +1 channels (i.e. the ITV and Channel 4 families of channels). So, at the moment, BBC programmes get fewer viewers than they would with a +1 channel. The better question is, Why aren't BBC2+1 and BBC4+1 also planned? I expect the answer is, Because the additional cost is unaffordable, but the axed-BBC3 channel frequency is now available for one +1 service, and is to be used for the channel which will get most viewers.

If (when?) broadcast BBC4 is axed and BBC4 becomes an online-only service, at some point in the (near?) future, I'd expect its content budget to be slashed, all its new programming to be broadcast subsequently on BBC2 after 23:20 on weekdays and at any time on weekends, and the former BBC4 channel frequency to be used to broadcast BBC2+1 from 19:00 to closedown each day.

[teamsaint]

Ok, well I accept that may be the logic.
But iplayer, for all its issues, is WAY ahead of ITV player and the C4 thing. Have you ever tried to use ITV player?
And, so it doesn't matter about content at all, it is just about ratings.
Is that why we have the licence fee?

I expect that the BBC management will supply a survey that BBC1 +1 and CBBC till 8.00pm is what the public says it wants.

I don't happen to think that your question is better than mine. If online is good enough for BBC3, then iplayer is good enough for BBC 1 catchup.

[Honoured Guest]

I hadn't considered the relative strengths and weaknesses of iPlayer, ITV player and Channel4player!

Content vs Ratings? - I see what you mean, but that's a biased way of describing the decision! True, BBC policy now is to focus on quality of content, but it's also to make that quality widely accessible - which includes maximising its reach by making it available on a variety of platforms - and a +1 channel for evening BBC1 is expected to contribute to that. And, if BBC1+1 proves successful, I foresee BBC2+1 becoming an attractive proposition, which strengthens the weight of argument for ending broadcast BBC4, in my opinion.

BBC3 was first in line to go online because it's believed that its youthful demographic makes this least disruptive to its audience. Also, BBC1 is more likely than BBC3 to be viewed at home by a number of family members gathered together, so it's better to permit them to sit on the sofa in front of the telly, rather than huddle around a laptop or tablet!

Online "good enough" for BBC3 - Remember that all new "longform" (> 30 mins?) online-BBC3 programmes will subsequently be broadcast on BBC1 or BBC2.

[Barbirollians]

It is a somewhat surprising move but BBC3 was full of trash programmes that the BBC should never have made - some of the " comedy" has been egregious - puerile in the extreme. Although there have been some gems and it would be sad if in a new environment Bluestone 42, Him and Her , Gavin and Stacey for example would not get commissioned.

There was that excellent army documentary series Our War as well but then there was also Sun, Sex and Suspicious Parents !