Religious freedom or ...?

[JimD]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-26437882

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Definitely "or".

[Dave2002]

If the exams are national exams they should not be altered. Sorry.

The exam board should not compromise on this.

[Old Grumpy]

If the exams are national exams they should not be altered. Sorry.

The exam board should not compromise on this.

Spot on. This is a science exam, after all.

[eighthobstruction]

Goodness....are they up to it as well?....and all those top minds too....gor!

[Beef Oven!]

"The Department of Education meanwhile has asked for assurances that the children will be taught the full curriculum"

Fat chance, based on what's already happened.

[Frances_iom]

Goodness....are they up to it as well?....and all those top minds too....gor!

they comprise about 20% of UK jewry and are the fastest growing section (50% or more kids/fam as compared with other Jews) - basically they rejected the 18th enlightenment and live within their own self constructed ghettos - interesting article on wikipedia which implies that their behaviour has grown more inward looking + 'ultra orthodox' over last century - similar groups in Israel exert influence way beyond their numbers

[Serial_Apologist]

Religions are taking over the gap vacated by socialism.

[Dave2002]

they comprise about 20% of UK jewry and are the fastest growing section (50% or more kids/fam as compared with other Jews) - basically they rejected the 18th enlightenment and live within their own self constructed ghettos - interesting article on wikipedia which implies that their behaviour has grown more inward looking + 'ultra orthodox' over last century - similar groups in Israel exert influence way beyond their numbers

So naturally they don't use cars or trains or planes, they don't buy modern commodities based on science and engineering, such as TVs, CD, DVD, Blu Ray, microwave ovens, or have centrally heated homes, because these were mostly invented and developed over the last two centuries, and as for satellite navigation which really relies on Einstein's theories in order to work properly - unlike most of the other gadgets mentioned - that's completely out of order. Computers, which are widely used for commercial purposes and logistics are also out, I'd guess, and are of course embedded in most of the other gadgets now. See if they like that.

If they don't want to do, or learn science, I suppose that's OK - if they are exempted from national curricula, but they shouldn't be given special treatment regarding any examination administered by national, or even regional, examination boards.

[Frances_iom]

So naturally they don't use cars or trains or planes,...

of course not - such ethics are essentially self serving - mechanisms can be found to allow modern conveniences - one jewish group in North London (possibly the same lot) sought planning permission to erect posts around their ghetto (of semis etc) from which multicoloured ribbons would be hung - apparently this made it ok to do some servile work (eg operate light switches) on the sabbath - there are true nuts everywhere Islam, Christianity + Jewry - catch is they are treated seriously instead of being derided (+ allowed to educate children to believe their form of stupidy).

[Old Grumpy]

The point is though, isn't it, that evolution should be being taught as part of "science" and therefore examined.

[Ferretfancy]

of course not - such ethics are essentially self serving - mechanisms can be found to allow modern conveniences - one jewish group in North London (possibly the same lot) sought planning permission to erect posts around their ghetto (of semis etc) from which multicoloured ribbons would be hung - apparently this made it ok to do some servile work (eg operate light switches) on the sabbath - there are true nuts everywhere Islam, Christianity + Jewry - catch is they are treated seriously instead of being derided (+ allowed to educate children to believe their form of stupidy).

The problem is that these religious quirks are not just practised within whichever club it is, but force themselves on the lives of the non believers. This was certainly the case with the eruvs, which you refer to, Frances. Large sections of Golders Green were to be festooned with poles and wires passing people's windows in order to designate the area within as a sort of free zone in which Sabbath restrictions did not apply. The whole affair caused huge debate, and to be fair many jewish organisations objected to it. I'm not sure if it ever came about in the face of so much opposition.. The absurd thing of course is that all that the fanatical faithful needed in order to comply was a local map with the boundary marked on it!

I would like to see a state of affairs in which state education would be completely secular, with religion discussed only in an educational context as a part of the study of citizenship.If people of faith wish to bring up their children as believers, they should be free to do so with the equivalent of Sunday Schools within their communities,
but not in formal schooling.

[Pabmusic]

...I would like to see a state of affairs in which state education would be completely secular, with religion discussed only in an educational context as a part of the study of citizenship.If people of faith wish to bring up their children as believers, they should be free to do so with the equivalent of Sunday Schools within their communities,
but not in formal schooling.

I agree 100%.

Presumably if this (or another) sect believes literally in the biblical description of Earth - that is, supported on pillars and situated beneath a firmament that includes a floating sea - then they can 'redact' any mention in exams of Earth being an out-of-shape, tilted globe orbiting the Sun, which itself is orbiting the Milky Way.

[Dave2002]

I agree 100%.

Presumably if this (or another) sect believes literally in the biblical description of Earth - that is, supported on pillars and situated beneath a firmament that includes a floating sea - then they can 'redact' any mention in exams of Earth being an out-of-shape, tilted globe orbiting the Sun, which itself is orbiting the Milky Way.

Simpler to have elephants or whatever keeps us "up" than to worry about space, or space-time, or a more complex system such as you mention, in which not only are there almost unimaginable things going on within the Milky Way, but there are apparently also millions of external galaxies outside, of which the nearest - the Great Andromeda Galaxy is about 2.5 million light years away, and if we could see it easily would actually fill a greater part of the sky than the moon, since it is estimated that it subtends an angle about 6 times that of the Moon when viewed from Earth and measured from its extremities. Throw in the extra complications of Hubble's Law and redshift (Doppler and/or gravitational, plus dark matter and dark energy and systems which are accelerating away in the deep recesses of the universe, and belief in elephants or other support mechanisms for the Earth becomes easier to tolerate!

Besides the disregard for science, procedurally it must be wrong for teachers to have access to exam papers which are to be taken by students before the exam sittings, and any exam board which believes this to be acceptable can hardly deserve to be taken very seriously. The whole point of national and regional exam boards is that they can be used to compare performance of students against accepted standards, and it is not a normal procedure to allow teachers or schools to indulge in procedures which bias the results. If there are disagreements between individual schools and exam boards these should be dealt with long before any exam, and procedurally it is very suspect if schools are allowed to amend exams in the ways highlighted by the article.

Perhaps those involved should simply agree not to participate in exams, the contents of which they disagree with.

[Ferretfancy]

I agree 100%.

Presumably if this (or another) sect believes literally in the biblical description of Earth - that is, supported on pillars and situated beneath a firmament that includes a floating sea - then they can 'redact' any mention in exams of Earth being an out-of-shape, tilted globe orbiting the Sun, which itself is orbiting the Milky Way.

As the American lady said to the professor " It's turtles all the way down "