Pronunciation of musicians' names

[Pabmusic]

"I just know some public figure named Smith would start pronouncing his last name Smythe"


Hmmm - isn't that pronounced 'smith' anyway?

How did Dame Ethel pronounce her name - which didn't have an 'e' on the end?

I'm sure it was 'Smithe' (that is, with a long 'i'). I used to know a family member, and he at least pronounced it that way, which of course is how we say it.

[Flosshilde]

I assumed that it was toff's version of Smith, spelt that way to distinguish them from the lower orders, or to confuse them (like Cholmondley, or Bucket )

[jean]

I'm sure it was 'Smithe' (that is, with a long 'i').

I think Donald Mcleod pronounced Ethel that way when she was Composer of the Week.

[Roehre]

I think Donald Mcleod pronounced Ethel that way when she was Composer of the Week.

He certainly did, and it took some time before the penny dropped whom he meant.

[Flosshilde]

According to Humphrey Burton's biography of Bernstein: "There are several towns and villages named Bernstein in Germany and Austria (where the pronunciation is BernSTINE), but Bernstein's parents came from Jewish ghettos in NW Ukraine, where the last syllable is usually pronounced BernSHTAYN or STEEN. Sam (Leonard's father) insisted, however, on the mid-European style employed by the earlier immigrants."

Joyce DiDonato favours 'stine'.

[french frank]

Joyce DiDonato favours 'stine'.

Trying to say it spontaneously from memory, I would say Leonard Bernstine - and probably Elmer Bernsteen, even though his mother was a Feinstein ). And I see Wikipedia is dogmatic:

"He was not related to the celebrated composer and conductor Leonard Bernstein [ ... ] They pronounced their last names differently; Elmer pronounced his (BERN-steen), and Leonard's was (BERN-stine)."

Einstine, Einshtine? I'd say Einshtine - but he was German born and brought up, unlike the two others [Sorry - that should be on Ideas and Theory ]

[Beef Oven!]

My memory from childhood tells me he was always referred to as Burn-styne.

I think that it was only later, when I understood the European pronunciation of 'EI' in German, that I changed the way I said it.

[jean]

But that is the German pronunciation. Did you change your pronunciation out of sheer bloodymindedness?

(Recently someone on Radio3 announced a Liebesleid. I assumed it was a mistake, but then I reflected that love might be as productive of sorrow as of a song.)

[french frank]

(Recently someone on Radio3 announced a Liebesleid. I assumed it was a mistake, but then I reflected that love might be as productive of sorrow as of a song.)

There is indeed a Liebesleid as well as a Liebeslied (Kreisler). [Too many ei's and ie's - Ed]

[Flosshilde]

How about Borodeen from Margaret Juntwait today?

[marthe]

Back to Leonard Bernstein. I remember his name being pronounced as Burnstine. We used to watch, on prime time network TV, the broadcasts of the Young People's Concerts conducted and narrated By Leonard Bernstein http://www.leonardbernstein.com/ypc.htm . On the other hand, my father had a colleague named Dr. Joseph Bernstein who pronounced his name "Burnsteen". I was confused by this difference in pronunciation when I was young. As for Borodin, Margaret Juntwait is using the standard American pronunciation of that name.

[Beef Oven!]

But that is the German pronunciation. Did you change your pronunciation out of sheer bloodymindedness?

(Recently someone on Radio3 announced a Liebesleid. I assumed it was a mistake, but then I reflected that love might be as productive of sorrow as of a song.)

I meant Burn-steen, but got confused.

Changed to Burnstyne later.

[gamba]

My little brother, in early stages of speech, referred to well- known conductor as Barribolli - much more attractive than the correct version. Eventually the whole family went his way - & why not ?