Pronunciation of musicians' names

[John Wright]

This subject came up on another forum. I've always said Raymond Leppard with same emphasis on both syllables like leopard, and I think R3 always have too?

Eric Siday. I've always said SI-day on my podcasts but Americans say Si-DAY maybe he let it change when he went to live in USA?

Leonard Bernstein. Some say Bern some say Burn, some say styne, some say steen, some say who cares?

These discussions brought up a few links from my US colleagues, I haven't checked them all yet but thought members here would be interested, and consider where R3 gets it's guidance from.

Where are the good UK sites for names' pronunciation?

For now, on pronunciation of 'public names', here are a few links from USA:

http://www.pronunciationguide.info/thebiglist.html

http://www.sos.mo.gov/wolfner/SayHow/

http://www.wwuh.org/program/music/jazz/jazz%20pronunciation%20guide.htm

http://iowapublicradio.org/pronouncing-dictionary-music-and-musicians

http://www.pronouncenames.com/

[Flosshilde]

Leonard Bernstein. Some say Bern some say Burn, some say styne, some say steen, some say who cares?

Isn't 'steen' the USA pronounciation, & 'styne' the British/European?

(In the film 'Young Frankestein' I think the titular character - from the USA - insisted his name be pronounced 'shteen' - but that might have been because he was anxious to distinguish himself from his ancestor )

[ardcarp]

Plain old Bach is one that causes problems! 'Bark' is clearly uncivilised, so most English musicians settle for 'Barch' (the 'ch' being of the Germanic palatal variety). To say it the German way, with a short 'a' just makes one sound...well...affected. The Americans don't mind though, so while they'd call a firm of U.S. lawyers Wag-ner and Burn-steen, they try quite hard with composers, writers and painters

[french frank]

(In the film 'Young Frankestein' I think the titular character - from the USA - insisted his name be pronounced 'shteen'

I'd have said either shtein or steen, not a combination of the two.

[Flosshilde]

Well, it is a comedy

[Ferretfancy]

What;s the distinction between 'Vich' and 'Vitch' ?

[Flosshilde]

Does the T make the ch harder? (think of the sound usually written as 'tch')

[Pabmusic]

What;s the distinction between 'Vich' and 'Vitch' ?

Probably none. It's a transliteration of a non-English name in the (presumably) Cyrillic alphabet. In such circumstances there will always be different interpretations of sounds that English perhaps can't cope with anyway.

A good analogy are place names containing the Old English (ie: Anglo-Saxon) burℨ - a fortified town. The letter yogh (ℨ) was a guttural that's almost disappeared from English, except in Scotland (where several features of AS pronunciation remain). Presumably the Normans couldn't handle it, so burℨ became variously bury, borough, brough, burgh and burg (even perhaps -by, by confusion with the Norse suffix, which means something different).

What might happen, though, is that differently spelt transliterations may pick up different pronunciations over time - a sort of rationalisation of the differences. This might explain the difference that Flossie talks of in the previous post.

Anyway - do we know how Bernstein himself pronounced his name?

[kea]

I've always wondered about some of the Scandinavians—Vagn Holmboe, Per Nørgård, Einojuhani Rautavaara, Kaija Saariaho, Hilding Rosenberg et al. Not knowing the languages in question I'm sort of lost. Some of the Russians are similar due to weird vowels: Roslavets, Scriabin, Rachmaninov, etc.

[teamsaint]

easy answers to all of this.............

send a tweet into Katie and ask.

[teamsaint]

Probably none. It's a transliteration of a non-English name in the (presumably) Cyrillic alphabet. In such circumstances there will always be different interpretations of sounds that English perhaps can't cope with anyway.

A good analogy are place names containing the Old English (ie: Anglo-Saxon) burℨ - a fortified town. The letter yogh (ℨ) was a guttural that's almost disappeared from English, except in Scotland (where several features of AS pronunciation remain). Presumably the Normans couldn't handle it, so burℨ became variously bury, borough, brough, burgh and burg (even perhaps -by, by confusion with the Norse suffix, which means something different).

What might happen, though, is that differently spelt transliterations may pick up different pronunciations over time - a sort of rationalisation of the differences. This might explain the difference that Flossie talks of in the previous post.

Anyway - do we know how Bernstein himself pronounced his name?

http://articles.philly.com/2010-02-12/news/25219401_1_ethnic-identity-lennie-bernstein-icon

perhaps we should raise a Stein to the author for sorting that out.
er, if he really did , of course.......

[rauschwerk]

Anyway - do we know how Bernstein himself pronounced his name?

According to Humphrey Burton's biography of Bernstein: "There are several towns and villages named Bernstein in Germany and Austria (where the pronunciation is BernSTINE), but Bernstein's parents came from Jewish ghettos in NW Ukraine, where the last syllable is usually pronounced BernSHTAYN or STEEN. Sam (Leonard's father) insisted, however, on the mid-European style employed by the earlier immigrants."

[Pabmusic]

http://articles.philly.com/2010-02-1...bernstein-icon

perhaps we should raise a Stein to the author for sorting that out.
er, if he really did , of course.......

Whatever... I'll raise a stein anyway.

[mercia]

I wouldn't pronounce Leppard in the way that I pronounce leopard, but perhaps I'm pronouncing leopard incorrectly [leppud]

how do we pronounce that road in Brighton called Old Steine ? (or is Bernstein nothing to do with that ? )

[Flosshilde]

http://articles.philly.com/2010-02-1...bernstein-icon

perhaps we should raise a Stein to the author for sorting that out.
er, if he really did , of course.......

"I just know some public figure named Smith would start pronouncing his last name Smythe"


Hmmm - isn't that pronounced 'smith' anyway?

How did Dame Ethel pronounce her name - which didn't have an 'e' on the end?