Radio 3 'Dimension' ???

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

"Dimensions" sounds like yet another moronic gimmick, like calling programmes (and halves of concerts "episodes". No, ardcarp, you are not a dinosaur, and show no signs of dementia. You just see it as it is.

[french frank]

If you go to the Radio 3 Homepage, you'll see the link to Dimensions, and if you hover over it, it says "Discover classical music with Radio 3".

That actually seem more sensible to let people who are interested browse through the content for themselves rather than giving every broadcast an infantilised makeover, as if anyone who doesn't know a lot about classical music has a mental age of 12 and has a 'Hello, mum' desire to be the focus of attention for a few minutes.

The trail is, I suppose, designed as a signpost to that content? Radio 3's mistake is thinking that either the figurative 12-year-olds and the older members of the population can sit down side by side and enjoy the same beginners' programme; or, alternatively, that only the figurative 12-year-olds matter.

However, Radio 3 does have a very pressing reason for wanting to land just one very good RAJAR quarter at the minute. Perhaps that explains the weeks of film music, the TV trails, the celebs like Maconie, Bacon and - wasn't there a woman from R5L recently?

[Honoured Guest]

Stuart Maconie and Richard Bacon are two of the BBC's best broadcasters. Not "celebs". They both seem to have the freedom to broadcast with integrity, although I daresay they also feel constrained to some degree by BBC policy guidelines.

[french frank]

Stuart Maconie and Richard Bacon are two of the BBC's best broadcasters. Not "celebs". They both seem to have the freedom to broadcast with integrity, although I daresay they also feel constrained to some degree by BBC policy guidelines.

Well-known broadcasters, then, like Katie Derham, Aled Jones (yes, I know he's gone back to Classic FM now). My point was that they don't have much to offer by way of classical education to classical music fans, since they either know nothing or not much. Grudging praise to Maconie for managing to introduce the theme of 'anthems' - a current pop music craze - on to Saturday Classics, so another attraction for his 6 Music fans.

[Bryn]

Stuart Maconie and Richard Bacon are two of the BBC's best broadcasters. Not "celebs". They both seem to have the freedom to broadcast with integrity, although I daresay they also feel constrained to some degree by BBC policy guidelines.

Ah yes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Bacon_%28broadcaster%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Maconie

The latter's Freak and Freakier Zones are well worth a listen.

[DracoM]

Stuart Maconie and Richard Bacon are two of the BBC's best broadcasters. Not "celebs". They both seem to have the freedom to broadcast with integrity, although I daresay they also feel constrained to some degree by BBC policy guidelines.

Not celebs? Yeah, right....................
There are times when being an HMV can come across as just a tad tedious.

[MrGongGong]

Grudging praise to Maconie for managing to introduce the theme of 'anthems' - a current pop music craze - on to Saturday Classics, so another attraction for his 6 Music fans.

???

"a current pop music craze" ?

Where ?
If you are referring to what are known as "dance anthems" they aren't really "pop music"
but I suspect we should only be clear when talking about real 'serious' music ?

[Honoured Guest]

Classical listeners don't all fall into one of just two camps - the keepers of the true flame, who are either formally educated or have accreted serious knowledge over time, and "beginners" with no familiarity. I, for one, am in a different camp, with much familiarity but little serious knowledge, and I'll never acquire any more "knowledge" because that's just not my make-up. And I very much doubt that most "beginners" will ever become more "educated" either. Listeners aren't all on a path of "progression" where they'll potentially all end up discussing the minutiae of the history of modernist composition techniques. But they can still appreciate intelligently presented and produced programmes which don't deliberately exclude them. Broadcasting should be for the interested listener and never speak exclusively to a narrow "knowledgeable" set, in my opinion.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Classical listeners don't all fall into one of just two camps - the keepers of the true flame, who are either formally educated or have accreted serious knowledge over time, and "beginners" with no familiarity. I, for one, am in a different camp, with much familiarity but little serious knowledge, and I'll never acquire any more "knowledge" because that's just not my make-up. And I very much doubt that most "beginners" will ever become more "educated" either. Listeners aren't all on a path of "progression" where they'll potentially all end up discussing the minutiae of the history of modernist composition techniques. But they can still appreciate intelligently presented and produced programmes which don't deliberately exclude them. Broadcasting should be for the interested listener and never speak exclusively to a narrow "knowledgeable" set, in my opinion.

What an extraordinary statement. Where did these "camps" come from? And as for the patronising reference to "beginners" not becoming more educated - it leaves me gasping with disbelief. Throughoutnlife, we are all on a path of progression. It's called experience.

[french frank]

???

"a current pop music craze" ?

Where ?
If you are referring to what are known as "dance anthems" they aren't really "pop music"

Call them what you like.



Kiss FM has a feature on 'anthems' just about every day. It's not what most people here would think of readily as 'anthems' < Latin antíphona, Greek ἀντίϕωνα, whether it's pop or dance music.

[french frank]

Broadcasting should be for the interested listener and never speak exclusively to a narrow "knowledgeable" set, in my opinion.

Leaving aside that that isn't what 'broadcasting' means, I assumed you knew what you meant by 'keepers of the true flame' but I didn't. I agree that there aren't two camps: there's a continuum. But, factually, there are 'beginners' because they don't know much. Just as you have 'beginners French courses' or 'beginners ballroom dancing'. It's not an insult.

I am (for once ) entirely in agreement with 2Gongs. Perhaps, after all there are two camps: those who do want to acquire more knowledge and those who don't. Those would certainly be two camps that wouldn't fit very happily together. You exaggerate: classical music fans don't all end up 'discussing the minutiae of the history of modernist composition techniques' but they may well still want to expand their knowledge - a fact recognised by the Agreement which the BBC signed up to last time.

Much of the argument is that swathes of daytime programming on Radio 3 is not made up of 'intelligently presented and produced programmes'. The idea that people are deliberately excluded because it's not in their make-up to want to learn doesn't mean that those who do want to learn should be 'deliberately excluded' by non-aspirational populism.

[teamsaint]

I'd love to know where this consensus about Richard Bacon being such a terrific broadcaster comes from. Handed down from the BBC, I suspect. I find him utterly unlistenable. Maconie is a good broadcaster at times, but like most of us probably ought to stick to (being paid for) things he is good at. These probably don't include endless banter on R2 and R6 Music at the expense of playing music, or being on radio 3 music programmes.

And if the vast majority of people REALLY don't want to learn more about the music they choose to listen on a predominantly music station, I would be gob smacked.

As Richard Bacon might say.

[ardcarp]

But they can still appreciate intelligently presented and produced programmes which don't deliberately exclude them.

Intelligently presented and produced programmes are falling away one by one from R3. Of the few that still exist, I can't think of one that sets out to 'deliberately excludes'. Those who are 'beginners' (your expression, HG) most certainly do not want to be patronised, talked down to or have their time wasted by mindless tweets and false mateyness.

[Thropplenoggin]

Here's an extra 'dimension' R3 could provide: texts for lieder recitals and operas.

[teamsaint]

Here's an extra 'dimension' R3 could provide: texts for lieder recitals and operas.

brilliant idea.

Then we could sing along.